Hasbro US Conference talks about a Cinematic Universe

[bowspearer]

I'm sorry but I cannot understand any argument that says changing the race of a character within a story fails to respect the core mythos (unless that character's race is a key part of the story and it's conflict - eg Luke Cage)

By that absurd argument, Luke Skywalker growing up on Tatooine had absolutely no impact on the core story of Original Trilogy of Star Wars. Even if we weren't talking about one of the two most core characters of the series, the fact is that a person is a product of several things - that includes their history and their heritage.

In this case that especially holds true.

Matt Trakker was a rich white guy in the same way that Tony Stark was a rich white guy. Both were insanely wealthy and insanely powerful, with high level government connections. In fact it was that wealth, the wide reach of the Trakker Foundation and it's connections with the PNA that not only gave M.A.S.K. the perfect cover it did, but allowed the Trakker Foundation itself to serve as a front for M.A.S.K. as a trans-national anti-terrorism task force: specifically concerned with eliminating V.E.N.O.M., which was an offshoot of M.A.S.K., after Miles Mayhem betrayed them.

I read nothing in the IDW MASK books that tried to turn Matt Trakker into a character that suddenly had to deal with issues of homelessness, gang violence, or historic subjugation because he was suddenly African-American.

Which only goes to show how tokenistic race-bending can be. It's a cheap gimmick without substance and everything you have just said here goes to show that.

As far as core concept -
The original Matt Trakker was a father and leader of a leader of road warriors who piloted transforming vehicles.

The IDW Matt Trakker is a son and leader of a leader of road warriors who piloted transforming vehicles.

That's as much an oversimplification as stating that Transformers is about a bunch of warring robots from another planet. It also tells me that you're not as familiar with the lore of the original series as you claim to be. In fact such an approach is so sparse, that it's like saying that Gobots and Transformers are one in the same because they're both stories about a bunch of warring robots from another planet.

The IDW Mask series dealt with the conflict between a global arms dealer/terrorist organisation (VENOM) and those who formed to stop it (MASK), who each pilot amazing vehicles that are capable of transforming for multi-terrain combat.

Right so it's so poorly rebooted that it had M.A.S.K. and V.E.N.O.M. be formed in the completely wrong order. Anyone who actually knows the original mythos knows that M.A.S.K. came first and that it was V.E.N.O.M. which was subsequently created from it when Miles Mayhem doublecrossed Matt Trakker, murdered Andy Trakker and stole half of the plans for the M.A.S.K. vehicles.

So what you're telling me here is that either the IDW writers had no idea what the original lore for M.A.S.K. was or couldn't care less about respecting it

It dealt with people ads leader happened to be African American.

A change which seems to have absolutely no justification to it

There is nothing in the core concept that is related to race and yet this gets targeted by people who want to trash a book because they lack the empathy to be able to identify with a character that no longer looks like them.

Or maybe it's because they respect the characters enough that they don't want them butchered for the sake of pandering - and yes, I would be just as annoyed if they'd made either Hondo MacLean, Nevada Rushmore, Julio Lopez, Bruce Sato, Ali Bombay, or anyone else I've missed, white.

Oh and given that John Henry and Cyborg happen to be two of may favourite DC characters, your argument might need more than a little bit of work here.

I don't remember seeing these issues raised with the Power Rangers reboot, when they changed the race of Trini, Zack, and Billy (but admittedly I don't really follow that fanbase anymore). So clearly race didn't factor into a story about 5 teenagers being provided mystical powers and piloting mechanical beasts against a space witch.

I wasn't talking about the reboot, I was talking about how as various teams have come along, they've been extremely diverse. Dino Charge was a great example of this.

So we're talking about a niche within a niche property. Of which the core concept is vehicles which transform into other vehicles.

Which justifies failing to properly respect the characters and the core mythos how exactly?

I doubt that race is factoring into poor reception any more than a lack of being able to target what MASK should stand for in a modern world, and therefore creating a touchstone for wide recognition beyond that niche market. Similar to how GI Joe ARAH struggles to define how characters largely characterised by old-school warfare are supposed to relate to a modern world.

I didn't say race; I said race-bending; big difference. And if it's had no effect on the book in terms of long time, more hardcore fans, then explain why Marvel's vice president of sales has come out and openly said that minority-bending characters has harmed their sales.

Are you telling me that if a publishing company as well entrenched as Marvel took a hit from minority-bending iconic characters, that IDW wouldn't with a title like M.A.S.K., whose core initial market was the nostalgia crowd?

I can't quite tell what you're trying to say here. On one hand you're condemning IDW for making nuanced changes to character's previously stated bios and backgrounds and then praise Marvel for marking nuanced changes to character's previously stated bios and backgrounds.

IDWs changes to Matt Trakker weren't nuanced - they were cheap and tawdry, and according to your own argument, they didn't even respect the origins of the original story.

Conversely, what Marvel did for Bludgeon expanded on the original tech spec without contradicting it. Likewise, there is nothing in Thunderwing's portrayal in the Matrix Quest in G1, which contradicts him being:

A two-faced, lying, cheating, back-stabbing scoundrel. The ultimate Decepticon villain.

This is especially true given that while the Decepticons thought they were destroying the Matrix, he was seeking to gain it for himself as the ultimate source of power and self-advancement.

In short, the argument you do have here, is incredibly weak.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

I suspect it was needlessly race-bending Matt Trakker which did it.

Easy fix, just change his name from Matt Trakker to Matt Blacker...

[bowspearer]

Easy fix, just change his name from Matt Trakker to Matt Blacker...

No, if IDW were so concerned with having a black leader, the easy fix would have been to set the IDW comic as a sequel to the original story and have, say Hondo Maclean's son, as the new head of M.A.S.K.

After all, Skywatch had been around for 30 years, so it's entirely feasible that the original team could have existed in the 1980s and have been the first attempt by governments to reverse engineer Cybertronian tech.

Had they done that, next to noone would have an issue with the approach.

[Paulbot]

Matt Trakker was a rich white guy in the same way that Tony Stark was a rich white guy. Both were insanely wealthy and insanely powerful, with high level government connections. In fact it was that wealth, the wide reach of the Trakker Foundation and it's connections with the PNA that not only gave M.A.S.K. the perfect cover it did, but allowed the Trakker Foundation itself to serve as a front for M.A.S.K. as a trans-national anti-terrorism task force: specifically concerned with eliminating V.E.N.O.M., which was an offshoot of M.A.S.K., after Miles Mayhem betrayed them.

I remember absolutely zero of any of this back story! I guess it's been 30 years since I've seen the cartoon though.

However I can see that you can remove the word white from that paragraph and have a rich man (regardless of race in a modern reboot) without changing anything else.

But anyway, the main thing I wanted to comment on was how I remember now of this. I misrembered and thought Matt just owned a service station in the American outback!

[griffin]

I remember absolutely zero of any of this back story! I guess it's been 30 years since I've seen the cartoon though.

However I can see that you can remove the word white from that paragraph and have a rich man (regardless of race in a modern reboot) without changing anything else.

But anyway, the main thing I wanted to comment on was how I remember now of this. I misrembered and thought Matt just owned a service station in the American outback!

That seems to be the thing that is lost here, that MASK was a short lived series 32ish years ago and unless you are one of the few dedicated fans out there, most people wouldn't know much about it other than the nostalgia of it being an 80s cartoon/toyline.
It wasn't a huge toyline or popular enough to last more than a few years, so it is easier to change details that only a handful of passionate fans would notice or care about... or have issue with people who don't know because they weren't fans or huge fans (I watched the show when it was on and liked playing with other people's toys because I didn't have any but I don't know enough details or names to notice if IDW changed anything... or care, to still be able to enjoy it).
It would be like me knowing and owning most of the kiddie Transformers Go-bots toyline, only I would probably care if they redid it and changed details... and I certainly wouldn't have a go at anyone who didn't know about that cartoon/toyline (which I think lasted longer than MASK).

[ChlorHex]

MASK has so much potential as a standalone movie to kickstart a new toyline.

Don't get me wrong, I loved and lived on MASK as well as Transformers (plus other 80's toyline cartoons) as a kid.

It could probably do with a fresh start for the new generation unfamiliar with its history.

It's still popular in Asia as I see vintage MASK toys still being sold there at toy fairs in my travels.

So much potential... probably dump a cameo appearance of VENOM or MASK in the new GI Joe movie and if people want it then go for a full on movie.

So much potential to just drop it without any further consideration... c'mon Hasbro.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

No, if IDW were so concerned with having a black leader, the easy fix would have been to set the IDW comic as a sequel to the original story and have, say Hondo Maclean's son, as the new head of M.A.S.K.

After all, Skywatch had been around for 30 years, so it's entirely feasible that the original team could have existed in the 1980s and have been the first attempt by governments to reverse engineer Cybertronian tech.

Had they done that, next to noone would have an issue with the approach.

I was just joking.

But I do agree with you, making cosmetic changes without appropriate backstory is just tokenistic.

[Ploughmans Lunch]

If idw’s mask failed because of a black Matt trakker (cynical or not), it says more about the sorts of fans mask has, and if so I wouldn’t want to make a film series catering to that sort of person.

[M-bot]

Yeah, Matt Trakker was a rich white guy, but other than that, he was a basically a cypher - there was nothing in his character that was inherently “white” - no reason whatsoever he couldn’t be a rich black guy, since they also exist.

I suspect the dumping of the potential MASK and ROM movies were more to do with the fact that everyone said “let’s do big universes, like Marvel” and then watched as Warner/DC and Universal’s Dark Universe tried and both abjectly failed in doing so, by filundementally misunderstanding why the MCU worked in the first place.

Black Matt Trakker has nothing at all to do with it, IMO.

[bowspearer]

I was just joking.

But I do agree with you, making cosmetic changes without appropriate backstory is just tokenistic.

Careful making statements like that, or certain people here might accuse you of being either a racist or a Nazi