Cyberverse - are the toys getting too simple or are people getting dumber?

[FatalityPitt]

... because Hasbro are almost giving up on catering to the dedicated collectors, by eliminating the fan convention and cutting back on exclusive toys, which are getting harder to acquire (really limited release in very few countries).

The Generations line is pretty collector-orientated, and Hasbro said they had plans mapped out for the line until 2021. But I suppose if Cyberverse bombs commercially and Hasbro makes a big enough loss, there's a possibility that some of those plans may get scrapped.

Kind of makes me wonder though - Cyberverse is not off to a good start, and if things get that bad; what will Hasbro do? Will they try to salvage it by producing better Cyberverse toys for later waves, or will they cut their losses and shutdown Cyberverse completely? Hopefully it'll be the former where they start to produce some good Cyberverse toys... (though I'm reluctant to bet on it)

[shockNwave]

The Generations line is pretty collector-orientated, and Hasbro said they had plans mapped out for the line until 2021. But I suppose if Cyberverse bombs commercially and Hasbro makes a big enough loss, there's a possibility that some of those plans may get scrapped.

Kind of makes me wonder though - Cyberverse is not off to a good start, and if things get that bad; what will Hasbro do? Will they try to salvage it by producing better Cyberverse toys for later waves, or will they cut their losses and shutdown Cyberverse completely? Hopefully it'll be the former where they start to produce some good Cyberverse toys... (though I'm reluctant to bet on it)

I hope you're right. The last time I recall Hasbro having to salvage a series was when they had to upgrade TF Prime to TF Prime Beast Hunters and an excellent move that was.
Yet when I look at Cyberverse it looks way too weak and as they say "First impressions count." Which is why Cyberverse has started as a dead horse and TF Prime started as a potential derby winner and became an actual derby winner.

[griffin]

The toy commercial in Singapore (that might end up on TV here) probably doesn't help impress people with this toyline, and some of the screenshots of the kid will be meme-fodder for years to come.


"Get more WHOA" with Transformers Cyberverse... as in, whoa, don't buy those.

[FatalityPitt]

The toy commercial in Singapore (that might end up on TV here) probably doesn't help impress people with this toyline, and some of the screenshots of the kid will be meme-fodder for years to come.


"Get more WHOA" with Transformers Cyberverse... as in, whoa, don't buy those.

Nevermind the toys, forget the CGI Bumblebee in the background; that kid's acting is oscar-worthy!

[BigTransformerTrev]

Nevermind the toys, forget the CGI Bumblebee in the background; that kid's acting is oscar-worthy!

That’s because he’s an experimental young teen who has just discovered his new toy has a long fiery tongue that forcefully thrusts out and upwards.

Trust me - it’ll be Grimlock wearing the look of shock on his face after that kids parents go out for the day

[FatalityPitt]

While cartoons help, there have been numerous instances of Transformers managing fine or succeeding quite well without a cartoon....

... * 1996 = Beast Wars. History repeated itself. The TV series didn't properly begin until September 16, meaning that for most of this year the BW toys had to sell on their own power. By 1997 Beast Wars had become the third best selling action figure line after Toy Story and Star Wars....

...Heck, we never had any Lego shows or movies in the 80s, and those toys were immensely popular. Yet so many other toylines with cartoons ended up failing.

Oh yeah, I totally get that. That reminds me - When I was living in Malaysia in 1996, interest in Transformers had practically died by then, and all that was left on toy store pegs we're the less desirable G2 toys like Road Pig and Staxx. Suddenly these "Beast Wars" toys appeared. We had no idea what they were, except they looked like Transformers that turned into realistic animals. Without knowing a thing about Beast Wars (because the cartoon didn't air until the following year - 1997), I bought my first Beast Wars figure (Terrorsaur) and I thought the toy was amaaazzzing! It had more articulation than a Spider-man figure (thanks to the ball joints), it had weapon storage, and it looked good in both modes. I was instantly hooked, but because I was 10 at the time and my weekly allowance was limited; I bought mostly small basic figures like Iguanus, Rattrap, Razorbeast, etc. I never had the bigger figures like Optimus Primal, Megatron, Rhinox, etc. Even after the show aired, I still didn't have a strong desire to own those characters in toy form. From memory, my favourites (or the ones I played with the most) we're Razorbeast and Clawjaw, and neither we're on the show. I just found those figures to be really fun and they looked great.

I think while the cartoon might help sell toys to certain people, I don't think it's that strong a factor. It might be interesting to see Hasbro try something different where they release a new line of Transformers, but not invest heavily in commissioning a show around those toys. Instead they could try allocating the funds to making the toys better; so good that they sell themselves.

Thinking about it now, there's no shows or movies around Nerf Guns and Magic The Gathering, and yet those brands are still quite strong.

That’s because he’s an experimental young teen who has just discovered his new toy has a long fiery tongue that forcefully thrusts out and upwards.

Trust me - it’ll be Grimlock wearing the look of shock on his face after that kids parents go out for the day

At least the Grimlock toy won't break his heart. Girls can be quite cruel.

[GoktimusPrime]

One point you bring up is that with Beast Wars, the majority of toys never appeared on the show. The downside with the higher cost of CG animation was that only a select number of toys could ever appear on the show. The BW cartoon was only ever a "sample showcase" of the toy line, unlike say G1 where almost every toy appeared in the cartoon until the show's cancellation. Obviously making characters appear in a cel animated cartoon is much cheaper and easier - you just draw the characters. No need to construct 3D models. And with Transformers they had to construct 2 models per character- 1 robot and 1 beast mode. Even Transformers Prime had a relatively limited cast with the Decepticon ranks fleshed out with identical Vehicon clones. Out of all the Predacons released during Beast Hunters only 3 of them ever appeared in the show.

I don't mind having a cartoon - it certainly does give the characters more exposure. But I would prefer if the cartoons served the toys rather than the toys serving the cartoons. Animators aren't engineers and expecting toy designers to work around animation models is a massive constraint. It's a constant challenge for Masterpiece figures, and one of the cool things with MPs is seeing how TakaraTOMY can work their engineering magic to try and make these toys as show-like as possible. But it literally comes at a cost; one that's out of reach for kids (and even some collectors). I would love to see the line just go back to being made as toys for toy's sake. Not toys as avatars of show models.

"That MP's really cheap!," said no-one about an MP's RRP ever.
(except for Hasbro's MP Soundwave)

I've been checking Ben Yee's reviews on Cyberverse which appraises these toys just within the confines of Cyberverse; so he disclaims that he's not measuring them up to the standard of other TF lines which is why some of the toys are given positive reviews. Yet I can see for about half of these toys he's still giving them negative reviews even when restricted to the confines of Cyberverse's standards! So unlike my reviews where I'm comparing them with other TF lines like CHUG, Prime and RID, Ben's avoiding that. He's focusing on just looking at them within the scope of Cyberverse, and even then some of these toys still fall short.

[GoktimusPrime]

I hope you're right. The last time I recall Hasbro having to salvage a series was when they had to upgrade TF Prime to TF Prime Beast Hunters and an excellent move that was.

I don't know if Beast Hunters was a definitive step up from previous TF Prime waves. I initially wrote a rather lengthy "TL;DR" post, but for brevity's sake let's just say that BH has pros and cons when compared to previous TFP lines and on the whole I don't think that it's necessarily much better or worse. From an engineering/design POV of course.

The Generations line is pretty collector-orientated

It's aimed at both kids and adults. I've known kids who collect and play with Generations toys. There have been a few times when I've gone to pick up my daughter from school and have occasionally found kids playing with Generations toys. I remember one time seeing a boy upset because he couldn't find the weapon for his Combiner Wars Blackjack. His dad had no idea what the kid was talking about and just wanted to leave. I looked around and found the weapon dropped under a bush, so I grabbed it and ran after them to hand the weapon back. The kid was so relieved (and yes, I advised him not to bring TF weapons to school anymore).

I had a student who was disappointed that Generations Trailcutter didn't come with a "gun" (aside from the two guns attached to his shield), so he found a 5mm post gun from another toy and gave it to his Trailcutter. I remember it sitting on his desk in class and I remarked that it wasn't his gun and he told me the story. He once showed me a photo of his collection - it's filled up an entire bookcase (just as mine did when I was in school).

My friend's kid who's in Year 3 told me that he's been looking for Titans Return Rewind but hasn't been able to find him anywhere. I've since managed to track one for him and when I SMSed the photo to his parents they told me that their kid was super excited because I'd found his grail figure.

So yeah, there are definitely kids who are collecting and playing with Generations toys.

[FatalityPitt]

It's aimed at both kids and adults. I've known kids who collect and play with Generations toys. There have been a few times when I've gone to pick up my daughter from school and have occasionally found kids playing with Generations toys...

... So yeah, there are definitely kids who are collecting and playing with Generations toys.

That's interesting. There's no regular cartoon or show revolved around the Generations line (unless you count the online animated series by Machinima) and it still sells pretty strongly among younger fans. I surmised that the reason RiD 2015 figures (particularly the Warrior class figures) were relatively expensive was because some of the cost went into commissioning the RiD cartoon, and the purpose (I guess) of the cartoon was to get kids interested in the toys. Basically the cartoons are 25 minute toy commercials.

But if Generations can sell strongly without a regular show, then that makes me wonder - does Transformers need cartoons to sell the toys? Because if not, then maybe instead of investing money into commissioning the cartoons, they could instead allocate that money into producing more interesting and better quality toys. Or if Generations is their main bread and butter when it comes to Transformers, maybe they could dust off old cartoons from the 1980's and play those instead. Those are the shows more likely to feature characters who appear in the Generations line. Siege: War For Cybertron features Micromasters, so maybe Hasbro can buy the rights of Transformers Victory and Zone from Toei (if they haven't already), remaster those cartoons and show those instead of having a whole new cartoon produced from scratch.

Just some thoughts that sprang to mind while reading your post.

[GoktimusPrime]

While cartoons help, there have been numerous instances of Transformers managing fine or succeeding quite well without a cartoon.

Some examples include:

* Transformers - the non-cartoon years.
As you know, Transformers has never been out of production which is why fans like us have been able to continuously collect these toys since 1984. But we have certainly had years when there were no new cartoons on TV. In the West these would be: 1988-1995, 2002

* 1984 = in the United States the Transformers toyline debuted in early 1984. #1 of the comics didn't hit newsagents until May 8, but the cartoon didn't air until September 17. In spite of this, by the end of 1984 the Transformers toyline had grossed US$1.4 million in the USA alone. I don't know exactly what the pre and post cartoon sales were, but even if we were to attribute half of the sales to the cartoon, that would still mean that the toys alone raked in US$700,000, which would be a lot more if you adjusted for inflation today.

* 1996 = Beast Wars. History repeated itself. The TV series didn't properly begin until September 16, meaning that for most of this year the BW toys had to sell on their own power. By 1997 Beast Wars had become the third best selling action figure line after Toy Story and Star Wars.

* 2001 = Robots In Disguise, Australia. You'll remember when RiD came out here. It was months before the cartoon aired yet these toys were flying off shelves! Heck, how many of us were importing Car Robot toys in 2000 without having seen the anime and despite the AUD hitting record lows like 46US cents to the AUD.

At the end of the day, kids love good toys - with or without a cartoon. Many of us were purchasing G1 Transformers long before they ever appeared on the show. Come to think of it, the cartoon was largely irrelevant when it came to my collecting decisions as a kid. By the time a character appeared in an episode, I would either...
* Already own the toy
* Didn't own the toy but it was already on my want list
* Didn't own the toy but it was already on my skip list
Take Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime, just as 2 examples. I got Hot Rod months before I ever saw him on screen. And Rodimus Prime, being such a terrible figure, was on my skip list. Even after watching TFTM in cinemas I wasn't persuaded to get this toy. Years later I did get one because a friend of mine "grew out" of toys (har!) and gave his to me. But I don't remember ever seeing a Transformer appear on screen and then feeling like I then suddenly wanted the toy.

I guess as a kid without a disposable income I couldn't afford to get toys just because I liked the show character. I got the toy because I liked the toy. I later filled in the gaps as more and more other kids around me "grew out" of Transformers and either gave away their collections or sold them cheaply. There's no way that I would make some of the impulsive purchasing decisions that I do now as an adult. The only real difference that the cartoon made on me was that I'd change the way that I'd voice or act a toy out after seeing them appear on the cartoon. Because before then I'd just give them some 'normal' voice, but then I'd adjust my voice for that character after hearing them on the cartoon. Wow, Seaspray sounds like Mer-Man now? Okay.

Heck, we never had any Lego shows or movies in the 80s, and those toys were immensely popular. Yet so many other toylines with cartoons ended up failing.