Toys Then and Now

[drifand]

If we are talking from Transformers POINT OF VIEW, I feel it became worse than 10 years ago. Materials are bad, Quality control is bad, paint is lacking, lot of cut corners using holes in plastic.
There used to be a time I am wowed, and I am not talking about just masterpieces, just decent good transformers. I used to ignore 3p figures completely, now I dont.

I also think Toys today are drive by Fandom. It blinds the majority completely whenever a toy is badly made is been "Justified", in complete denial.
Whenever someone points its flaws or stating is at ridiculous prices, it is purely DEFENDED, and justified.

Toys today for collectors are marked up, plus the ridiculous hype of exclusive and Fear of Missing Out causing a toy going up 2 to three times higher than what is actually is.
Companies such as Bandai make "exclusives" as an excuse to justify a high price when an regular is like 1/4 of the price cheaper.

I no longer enjoy collecting toys as an hobby, I feel some people have taken this on board way out of hand and are spending way too much. I seen people spending more than they earn. Give yourself a reality check, How much were you spending 5 years ago on toys, and compare how much are you spending in just a month now. You be in a real shocker.

[BigTransformerTrev]

I no longer enjoy collecting toys as an hobby

Really? But every post I read from you is so upbeat and positive - I would have never have guessed

I also think Toys today are drive by Fandom. It blinds the majority completely whenever a toy is badly made is been "Justified", in complete denial.
Whenever someone points its flaws or stating is at ridiculous prices, it is purely DEFENDED, and justified.

Yes, like the great 'paint decline' of the Masterpiece line, it's always the rest of the Fandom's fault isn't it

I feel some people have taken this on board way out of hand and are spending way too much. I seen people spending more than they earn. Give yourself a reality check, How much were you spending 5 years ago on toys, and compare how much are you spending in just a month now. You be in a real shocker.

Who? Who have you seen doing this? Are you being literal? Are there really OzF members that are going increasingly into debt with their bank and/or credit cards because they are spending more money on toys than they actually earn? Do they still buy food, clothing, transport?

If we are talking from Transformers POINT OF VIEW, I feel it became worse than 10 years ago. Materials are bad, Quality control is bad, paint is lacking, lot of cut corners using holes in plastic.
There used to be a time I am wowed, and I am not talking about just masterpieces, just decent good transformers.

Toys today for collectors are marked up, plus the ridiculous hype of exclusive and Fear of Missing Out causing a toy going up 2 to three times higher than what is actually is.
Companies such as Bandai make "exclusives" as an excuse to justify a high price when an regular is like 1/4 of the price cheaper.

I no longer enjoy collecting toys as an hobby

Dude, all jokes aside, I remember writing a genuine response to one of your posts like 3 years ago, suggesting that if you don't enjoy TF's then there are a million other hobbies and interests out there that you may enjoy more. It's 3 years later and you are still bitching about how you don't like the hobby - WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING IT THEN?!

Seriously man, for your own mental health, find something you like to do more.

We all know that Beast Wars was the big game changer, but even then things continued to be a mixed bag. BW gave us loads of incredible figures that forever changed the landscape of toy design, but it also gave us some questionable toys like Retrax etc.]

The only big game changer it was for many of us was it put us off buying TFs for years because we didn’t like organic looking alt-modes and weird looking animals hybrid things

I know from the hundreds and hundreds of posts you’ve written about it that you love Beast Wars and you are more than welcome to do so, I like it well enough myself. But you really do give it too much credit. Like when you said Transformers wouldn’t exist without Beast Wars and I pointed out that RID(01) was actually what brought many of us back into the fold.

In this case I don’t reckon Beast Wars was THE big game changer - but it’s fine if you do. Just don’t speak for the rest of us. Personally BW marked the lowest point in my toy collecting over the past 35 years.

[Raider]

Whilst I'm a geewuner at heart, that is mostly due to nostalgia. Bot mode on those toys were mostly pretty clunky.

Ever since Combiner Wars came out, I have loved the direction and quality of the new toys. They feel like upgrades to the old G1 version. Yes there are a lot of repaints and retools but that is needed to turn a profit and I'm not complaining about the variety.

This is a transformers renaissance we are going through. Change my mind?

Note: applying this to Transformers only could probably see this on another section of the forums.

[ChlorHex]

I love my G1's (plus diaclones), beast wars, binaltechs... those will always be kept in my collection.
As for modern TFs, that's been well satisfied by 3rd parties... can't go wrong with Gigapower dinos, etc.
They satisfy my desire for articulated G1's with a fair price point.
I don't do brand loyalty... I'm a consumer and I'll get what I want. Lol

[BigTransformerTrev]

Personally BW marked the lowest point in my toy collecting over the past 35 years.

Actually I tell a lie. Back in the 90's I bought 1 BW figure (Depthcharge), 2 BM figures (Tankorr and Jetstorm) and 0 MW figures, since they were all repaints of pervious figures with almost random G1 names attached. So I guess Machine Wars was the lowest part of my collecting.

Of course since then an adult collector I've bought figures like 10th Anniversary Waspinator, Machine Wars Soundwave etc. But after G2 ended I really didn't start collecting again until RID(01) when I saw all these cool looking vehicle toys in the stores. It really did revitalize my interest.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I feel there is definitely something for everybody nowadays and whether you?re young or old, there is a Transformers line to scratch your playing or collecting itch. I feel like there was less choice back then.

I?m not a fan of loot box toys, but looking back there?s been various toy concepts over the years that I?ve tended to think lesser of (like Beybladez...does Yu Gi Oh count?) so really I just move on.

One thing that does make me wonder is the price of toys. Without opening the can of worms regarding quality of toys, the fact that toy prices seem to be rising, whilst wage growth is pretty stagnant, does make collecting certain lines a bit on the nose. Maybe someone can crunch some numbers comparing past and present wages proportional to toy cost.

[UltraMarginal]

Whilst I'm a geewuner at heart, that is mostly due to nostalgia. Bot mode on those toys were mostly pretty clunky.

Ever since Combiner Wars came out, I have loved the direction and quality of the new toys. They feel like upgrades to the old G1 version. Yes there are a lot of repaints and retools but that is needed to turn a profit and I'm not complaining about the variety.

This is a transformers renaissance we are going through. Change my mind?

Note: applying this to Transformers only could probably see this on another section of the forums.

You're wrong.
there, changed it.

No really, I completely agree with you except for when you think the renaissance started. I feel like it started with the Classics/Classics 2.0 line when HasTak started to produce original moulds of classic characters, at the time it was all G1, but since then we've had comics only characters, and representations (generally not many but still some) of almost every stage of transformers history in the main 'generations' toy line.
there have been some dips here and there, the combiner squads that had drones for limbs, the early classics that were just repaints from earlier lines, the heavily budgeted lines from the GFC, there were still many good toys but many didn't have the same feel that we have come to expect from transformers, either previously or since. We're in a golden age of transformers and it's been going for at least 15 years if you ask me.

Actually I tell a lie. Back in the 90's I bought 1 BW figure (Depthcharge), 2 BM figures (Tankorr and Jetstorm) and 0 MW figures, since they were all repaints of pervious figures with almost random G1 names attached. So I guess Machine Wars was the lowest part of my collecting.

Of course since then an adult collector I've bought figures like 10th Anniversary Waspinator, Machine Wars Soundwave etc. But after G2 ended I really didn't start collecting again until RID(01) when I saw all these cool looking vehicle toys in the stores. It really did revitalize my interest.

for me, I lost interest towards the end of G2, mostly because in my local remote township they were really hard to get hold of, and I couldn't get past the biological alt modes either.
The big issue I had was characters of the same names having completely different alt modes and bot modes. (I've since gotten over that stigma, but I still feel like it's a waste of originality and creativity to have a new transformers story/show/character that has completely new character designs but re-uses names that are well established with a different charcter/alt mode)

What got me back in to collecting seriously (I did pick up a couple toys, literally 2 I think, from the Unicron Trilogy) was the Alternators Binaltech line. I love them.

[BigTransformerTrev]

I couldn't get past the biological alt modes either.

The big issue I had was characters of the same names having completely different alt modes and bot modes. (I've since gotten over that stigma, but I still feel like it's a waste of originality and creativity to have a new transformers story/show/character that has completely new character designs but re-uses names that are well established with a different charcter/alt mode).

Yeah the names thing really used to bug me too. I understand now that a lot of it was Hasbro reusing the names in order to maintain their trademarks of them so it irritates me less, but back then it really annoyed me. Silverbolt was a flying wolf thing instead of a jet, Inferno was an ant instead of a fire truck etc etc. And when I saw Soundwave was now a brown crocodile that transformed into a bat and didn't even have a robot mode - that really irked me.

I nearly bought the BW Rampage toy back then but didn't because of the name, although I do have the Timelines version now which is pretty cool.

[GoktimusPrime]

In this case I don’t reckon Beast Wars was THE big game changer - but it’s fine if you do. Just don’t speak for the rest of us. Personally BW marked the lowest point in my toy collecting over the past 35 years.

Fact: Beast Wars boosted Transformers sales massively. By 1997 Beast Wars had become the third best selling action figure line after Toy Story and Star Wars.
This isn't my opinion. This is based on sales figures.

Compare TF shopping during the G2 years vs the BW years.
Compare the online fandom during the G2 years vs the BW years.

And bear in mind that the success of Car Robot and successive Transformers lines is thanks to Beast Wars. Car Robot was basically Beast Wars engineering with licensed vehicles. This in turn inspired Binaltech and Masterpiece. I still find design elements in MP and CHUG toys today that originated in BW. And this is why I generally don't get that excited about CHUGs or MPs based on BW toys vs those based on G1. If I look at say BW vs CHUG Waspinator (easy like for like comparison cos they're both Deluxes) I can see that neither toy is really better worse than the other. But when I compare say G1 vs CW Powerglide (and a G1 Mini-Bot would be roughly the price of a Legends Class in today's prices)... there's no comparison; CW wins hands down. I have yet to see any BW based CHUG or MP toy that I thought was, relative to price point, outright superior to the original BW toy. And this isn't because the MPs or CHUGs are lacking but just because BW was so good; a lot of the improvements on the more recent toys are superficial embellishments (e.g. screen accuracy) rather than something more substantive.

I've got TR Seaspray sitting on my desk atm. Looking at this toy I can see things like:
* Superior detailed sculpting
* Superior durability
* Painted decos instead of stickers
* At least 9 points of articulation in the robot mode
* Weapon is incorporated in the alt mode
Guess what? This all came from Beast Wars! This is why Beast Wars was the game changer. The main innovation that Car Robot gave us was combining BW engineering with licensed vehicles. Otherwise there wasn't a whole lot of new innovations from that line. And it wasn't even consistently applied across the line whereas BW was. With Car Robot we had: Fire Convoy, God Magnus, Gigatron, the Car Robot Bros, Team Bullet Train and the Buildmasters and that was it. Everything else in that line were repaints of existing G1, G2 and BW moulds (Predacons, Combaticons, Spychangers, Brave Max). And while Gigatron was a new mould he was a Predacon made in the BW aesthetic. Don't get me wrong, I really do love Car Robot a lot... but I don't think it was the big game changer that BW was.

I'm NOT saying that you have to love Beast Wars, but simply acknowledge the lasting impact that it's had on the Transformers brand that is still felt today.
I'm not talking about any individual's personal experience (that's anecdotal) but the overall impact that these lines have had on the entire brand and fandom as a whole.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Haha! Oh mate are you stretching worse than Plastic Man in a taffy factory now!

Compare the online fandom during the G2 years vs the BW years.

You mean the G2 years where most of us didn’t even know what the internet was, let alone have access to it?

And bear in mind that the success of Car Robot and successive Transformers lines is thanks to Beast Wars. Car Robot was basically Beast Wars engineering with licensed vehicles. This in turn inspired Binaltech and Masterpiece

Lots of Car Robots were directly recolored from G2 – by that rationale G2 had more of an engineering impact than Beast Wars
And if we are speaking of engineering, then can you provide evidence that a lot of the engineering used for Beast Wars toys was invented and designed specifically for Beast Wars? If so I happily concede the point. If not then the success of those lines go to the engineers that first came up with the engineering concepts and/or whatever toylines and products they were used for before they were adapted for Beast Wars merchandise.

I've got TR Seaspray sitting on my desk atm. Looking at this toy I can see things like:
* Superior detailed sculpting
* Superior durability
* Painted decos instead of stickers
* At least 9 points of articulation in the robot mode
* Weapon is incorporated in the alt mode
Guess what? This all came from Beast Wars!

Nope.

*Weapons incorporated in the alt-mode – G1 Brawl, Sixshot etc could have their weapons in alt-mode attached. The Omnibots had theirs built in to their altmodes. So did the Aquaspeeders. Tons already did it before Beast Wars.
*Articulation – Beast Wars gave us better articulation I will grant you, but they didn’t invent it of revolutionize it. They simply improved it. Even 1984 Prime could move his shoulders, elbows, revolve his wrists etc.
*Superior Durability – I’ve got hundreds of G1 TF’s who haven’t got a mark on them and have been through years of play. The legs constantly come off my 10th Anniversary Waspinator and I have to clip them back on.
*Paint Deco’s instead of stickers. Yeah mostly, but that didn’t mean G1 & G2 didn’t have paint decos, they just used both them and stickers. Otherwise there would be a lot of G1 toys without solid coloured windshields and less obvious details.
*Superior Detailed Sculpting – yep, will give ya that. But like a lot of this stuff, its just the engineering of toys evolving over the years. Most toylines get better and better as they go along. The Beast Wars portion of the Transformers toyline is no different. It's sculpting was generally better than G1, there have been toylines since better than it. It’s how it works. Are you genuinely arguing that without Beast Wars TR Seaspray would have been sculpted no better than his predecessor three decades previous from 1985? C'mon - stretching.

Sorry, but if you think Beast Wars invented all this stuff from scratch then you are looking through incredibly rose-coloured glasses.

I’m perfectly happy for you to be in love with Beast Wars – I’m glad you take such enjoyment from it to this day. But this opinion that Transformers owes the majority of its success to that iteration of its franchise just doesn’t hold up. Beast Wars did a lot for Transformers in the 90’s, but then the live-action movies did a lot to put the brand back in the public eye. There are tons of fans out there of it (that I personally disagree with) that argue as vehemently as you do for Best Wars that without the live-action movies the franchise would either be a shadow of what it is today, or non-existent at all. You can't say 'if A hadn't of happened, then B would have definitely happened'. Transformers may have succeeded even better without Beast Wars and the Movieverse - we don't know, maybe the franchise would indeed have been worse. We don't know that either.

So yeah, good on Beast Wars for contributing a lot to the franchise - but not as much as you seem to believe.