Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker *****SPOILER THREAD*****

[drifand]

I like to recap my thought from my previous episode coming into this one. I had no intention to impress you by far.
Is my opinion, you dont have to kiss my review. I am not looking for praises or anything, is nice to see how selfish you can be.

[SharkyMcShark]

I like to recap my thought from my previous episode coming into this one. I had no intention to impress you by far.
Is my opinion, you dont have to kiss my review. I am not looking for praises or anything, is nice to see how selfish you can be.

Ita a public forum. If you dont want anyone to see or comment on your posts perhaps try a diary or journal?

[Tha_Phantom]

So I watched it again today and I liked the movie a lot more on my second viewing, and a friend who had similar criticisms to mine also agreed they liked it more. In fact, a lot of my earlier criticisms just feel like nitpicks now. I still would like to see a longer cut at some point, but as it is the movie is satisfying.

[GoktimusPrime]

My thoughts about The Rise of Skywalker
(and I haven't read the rest of this thread yet as I'm trying not to allow other people's thoughts to dilute mine; I'll come back and read this thread properly later)

PROS

• The Sith Fleet. That thing is freaking amazing, and logically, makes way more sense than any Death Star or Starkiller Base. Really. Death Stars and Starkillers are no where near as practical as a fleet. The problem with a battle station is that you've put all your eggs in one basket. Even in The Last Jedi, the Last Order fleet was pretty damn menacing! Compare the Yamato (the largest and most powerful battleship ever made) vs the British Navy. The British never built a single ship as powerful as the Yamato or even the Musashi, but despite all that might it still failed to win WWII for Japan. Yet the fact that the British built a lot of ships - the fact that they had a massive fleet - was a key part in allowing them to conquer the world (and the reason why the English language has become the global lingua franca). The Brits built a stupid number of boats. A killer planet is an even dumber idea because it can only target a planet that it has perfect alignment with... so you literally need to wait for the stars to line up before you can fire your stupid weapon. It's not even mobile like a Star Destroyer. But the Last Order Fleet has the best of both worlds being an actual fleet and each equipped with a planet busting cannon. Effectively each ship was a Death Star. And as a fleet you can scatter them. This made it all the more important for the Resistance to ground this fleet before they can successfully take off; it really raised the stakes and made the big end battle more exciting.

• Incredible visuals and great music.

• It's a fun swash-buckling adventure, similar to the spirit of the original Star Wars. This is the first time that we've seen Rey, Finn and Poe all together and they work pretty well.

• No real wasted scenes or pointless character arcs as we saw in The Last Jedi (re: Canto Bite/casino scene, Finn & Rose's meaningless adventure)

• The way that they cut unused scenes shot with Leia from The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi and attempting to weave it into the narrative of this movie was done pretty well. Having to work around Carrier Fisher's untimely passing would not have been easy.

• Lots of neat Easter Eggs. Anyone else notice that Anthony Daniels^Denis Lawson (Wedge Antilles) appeared as a Rebel pilot manning the gun of the Millennium Falcon? The Emperor's Sith temple reminds me of the one seen in Rebels (where Vader fought Ahsoka). The Wayfinders remind me of Sith Holocrons.

• Ben Solo's end was quite suitable. It would've been awkward if he'd survived, really. His ending allowed him to be redeemed and gave him that noble sacrifice, much like what Anakin Skywalker did for Luke

• I liked the ending where Rey gives herself the name of Skywalker. This not only ties into her rejection of her Palpatine birthright, but also plays into the film's themes of Belonging and Identity (and the Search for Personal Identity). I also like how the ghosts of the twins looked on with their approval/blessing.

• Lightsabres! I like how I could hear hissing sounds as water was hitting the lightsabre blades during the fight atop the ruins in the waves. That's one thing that's bugged me before about the appearances of lightsabres either in the rain or underwater in previous Star Wars movies and TV episodes. These are burning hot blades... why wouldn't they be constantly reacting with water that touches them? I also liked how we finally got to see Leia's lightsabre, and how she used the twins' lightsabres in defeating her grandpappy.

• Speaking of which, I also really liked seeing the scene where Luke is training Leia! Finally! The digital de-aged faces on the stunt doubles also looked convincing. They've come a long way since Rogue One.

• I like how they discovered more defected ex-Stormtroopers; and also at the end where Jannah says that she doesn't know where she's from (reminding the audience about the long term cost of these Stormtroopers who were abducted as infants). And it was touching for Lando to say that he'd help Jannah find her roots.

• How cool was Dio? I didn't think I was gonna like this little hairdryer droid. Poor little dude has survived some serious abuse.

CONS

• The first act was too much. There was just too much exposition packed into it. It's part of the film's damage control (more on that later) and yeah... overwhelming. They would've been better off emulating the pace of the first act in Return of the Jedi; in that film several years have passed since the end of The Empire Strikes Back, but much of that exposition was told through simple things.
  e.g. Luke having a new costume and lightsabre and calling himself a Jedi Knight with better skills shows that, yeah, he's not the same rookie who had his butt handed back to him by Vader on Bespin. This was told matter-of-factly in part of telling the story rather than having the story need to explicitly give us this information. Less is more.

• Multiple MacGuffin Quests. This is the Wayfinder that locates the Sith Lord who commands the fleet that contains the ship that broadcasts the signal that deploys the fleet that blows up the planets that the goodies are defending with the help of the spy who works for the baddies who captured Chewbacca who carries the knife that holds the language that requires a hacker who can hack the droid who can translate the words that helps the heroes to defeat the Emperor who was manipulating Kylo who remembers he's Ben who is love with Rey who also loves Ben who saves her life who saved the galaxy which contains the house that Jack built! <phew>

• DAMAGE CONTROL! (and a lack of a singular vision)
  I think this is the cause behind much of this movies' woes. You have the two conflicting visions of JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson and... it's not working. *sigh* Compare and contrast this with the MCU where you have many different directors working on movies over an 11 year period that worked so much better, because Kevin Feige managed to keep them united under his singular over-arcing vision. Sure, individual directors were still given independent creativity, but they were all working to service the greater good that was the MCU story engine. I feel that Kathleen Kennedy could have been more disciplined with the directors... and this was only a trilogy, not a googology. Rian Johnson changed a lot of things, then JJ Abrams had to undo some of those changes while running with other changes while dealing with Princess Leia... plus Abrams wasn't given any additional time to work all this in -- DUDE! But I'm in two minds about the changes (see "Other" thoughts below)

• Rather convenient that Palpatine survived the fall to the Death Star reactor. Seems that great falls don't kill anyone in Star Wars. Not Darth Maul. Not Boba Fett. Not Palpatine. I bet that Mace Windu's probably still alive somewhere with a pair of mechanical arms

• Why is Finn Force sensitive now? He wasn't before.

• Did the Resistance run out of helmets?

OTHER (things that I'm not sure are pros or cons; or maybe both)

• Rey's background. This is part of the Damage Control that Abrams brought in. A Force Awakens hinted that Rey's parents might've been special, but then The Last Jedi confirmed that they were nobodies who sold her to repay debts or something. No wait, she's the freaking Emperor's granddaughter. Whaaaaa? I personally liked the idea that her parents really were noone special, but on the other hand being Palpy's granddaughter sorta explains why she's a Mary Sue. It's not a great explanation, but it's an explanation. The reason why I think it's an imperfect explanation is because it still doesn't explain why she's already highly skilled in the Force without any training. Even though Anakin Skywalker was created by Darth Plagueis and Sidious and was the most powerful Jedi with off-the-charts Midichlorians outnumbering that of Yoda's -- he still couldn't use Jedi weapons or powers without training. The only reason that he could pilot the Naboo fighter was because of his history in pod racing, and even then he was crashing and fumbling his way. Luke never used a lightsabre in A New Hope (beyond training on the Falcon) and he was able to get the Proton Torpedoes into the exhaust port with spiritual guidance from Obi-Wan Kenobi. Even in The Empire Strikes Back Obi-Wan appeared to Luke telling him to go find Yoda to complete his training. So the fact that they made Rey so over-powered did make the "nobody parents" story a bit weird. It still would've been possible to find another explanation as to why Rey is so powerful without making her the daughter of an already known powerful Force wielder, but yeah... this was the easy way. Which leads me to...

• SAFE. This is a very safe and low-risk Star Wars movie. Rey's background? Make her the Emperor's daughter. Easy fix. Kylo Ren's resolution? He turns to the Light Side. There you go. Chewbacca's death? Just kidding. Threepio's memory wipe. Kidding again. What did you expect, a consequential war?? Rose's character arc? Better not give her one. I get that she and Finn were useless characters in The Last Jedi, but that doesn't mean that she has to continue being useless. Jar Jar Binks was useless in The Phantom Menace, but they made him useful in Attack of the Clones! And Rose's romance with Finn? Forget that! I think that this was done deliberately after the backlash from The Last Jedi where a lot of people got angry about having their expectations subverted, so now they've swung to the opposite of extreme and are just giving fans what they want. The Dark Side loses, Light Side wins. I was hoping that Rey and Ben would become Grey Jedi - achieving a balance between the Light and Dark Sides. Nope! Light wins, Dark loses. Expectations defended! On one hand I blame the fans who cry when they tried to do new things, but on the other hand I blame Rian Johnson for going overboard with subverting expectations and making Disney more risk adverse. And movie studios are risk adverse by nature The same thing happened with Solo -- different directors made the movie muddled, but play it safe and make it conservative - don't subvert expectations. There you go.

• So uh... Han Solo... Force hallucination, right? He wasn't a Force ghost as he lacked that blue hued ethereal glow.

OVERALL
It felt like they didn't try to make a Star Wars movies that fans would like but rather a movie that fans won't hate. And I think part of that is due to the very toxic and verbal nature of the fandom -- it's as if the fans have scared Disney into passive submission so that they don't dare take any risks. But as they say, nothing ventured nothing gained. This movie didn't soar to new heights nor did it sink to new lows... it was just okay. It's as if Disney's saying, "Here's a Star Wars movie. Please don't hate us." It's a Star Wars movie that's trying to survive but not thrive. Look at what happened to Rose. After the stupid fan reaction to Kelly Marie Tran, it seems that they're too scared to do anything with her character. I think that it should have been her with Finn on that Star Destroyer deck trying to destroy the broadcast transmitter instead of Jannah.

Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker is a fine movie. Nothing mind blowing, but it's fine.

[Bidoofdude]

Finn being somewhat able to use a lightsaber efficiently could be a small contribution to the notion of him being force-sensitive. Has there even been an instance of a force-user that is straight up just not a lot but only a little force-sensitive?

[SharkyMcShark]

Finn being somewhat able to use a lightsaber efficiently could be a small contribution to the notion of him being force-sensitive. Has there even been an instance of a force-user that is straight up just not a lot but only a little force-sensitive?

Unsure about the current Canon, but in the Legends Continuity there was. The first one that springs to mind is Tyria Sarkin from Wraith Squadron.

I think one of the source books has said that the Knights of Ren are lesser Force sensitives.

Apparently JJ confirmed at the premiere that the thing that Finn wanted to tell Rey all film was that he was Force sensitive.

[GoktimusPrime]

Finn being somewhat able to use a lightsaber efficiently could be a small contribution to the notion of him being force-sensitive. Has there even been an instance of a force-user that is straight up just not a lot but only a little force-sensitive?

Efficiently? He stabbed some Stormtroopers which he managed to take by surprise, but in a duel against the Riot Trooper he was defeated (and was saved when the Riot Trooper was shot by Han Solo). He also lost against Kylo Ren (who probably would've beaten him faster if he hadn't been wounded by Chewie before the fight) and was saved by Rey. The ability to just pick up a lightsabre and use it to a limited capacity doesn't necessarily make one a "Force user" in the sense of a Jedi or Sith; after all, Han Solo once used a lightsabre in The Empire Strikes Back (and made a fairly precise cut on the Tauntaun's belly). A lightsabre is basically an energy sword; anyone can pick it up and swing it, and given that Finn would have had melee combat training as a Stormtrooper, yeah, he has some combat skill. But beyond that of a regular being? I don't know. And even if he did, I'm not sure how he could have improved his Force sensitivity without any training. Luke was trained by Obi-Wan in A New Hope and then tried to continue training himself between then and The Empire Strikes Back, but he had made fairly limited progress (he was still bested by a mindless Wampa). It was only after he received intense training from Yoda on Dagobah that he made leaps and bounds, but even then was still bested by Vader. In the years between Empire and Jedi Luke continued to train himself, which is why he was further improved by Return of the Jedi.

Finn showed no real Force potential in The Force Awakens and appeared to have no improvement in The Last Jedi. Suddenly in The Rise of Skywalker he's developed Force sensitivity? Now Leia did develop Force sensitivity in The Empire Strikes Back, but that's because it was later revealed that she's Luke's sister and the daughter of Anakin Skywalker; so she's already really powerful in the Force. And her Force sensitivity was only activated when Luke reached out to her. It's my understanding that the Organas deliberately avoided exposing her to any Force training in order to prevent any awakening of the Force within her, and the same with Luke's upbringing as a simple farm boy. I think that this was done to avoid allowing them to be detected by the Emperor and/or Vader. Because when Vader was attacking Luke in the Trench Run, he could sense that, "The Force is strong in this one," because indeed Luke's latent Force potential had already been activated. And the whole reason why Obi-Wan separated himself from the team on the Death Star was because he knew that Vader would sense his presence and while his primary objective was to shut down the tractor beam, his secondary objective was to distract Vader from Luke and company. Obi-Wan's more powerful presence masked Luke's; like a kind of Force misdirection.

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On a separate note, I'm still really not happy about how Rose Tico got sidelined as a character. I think the worst thing about this is not what it does to Rose, because she's just a fictitious character, but what it does for Kelly Marie Tran, who's a real person with actual feelings. We all know about the hate that spewed forth towards her because fans didn't like Rose; and we know that this kind of vitriol adversely affected the mental health of Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd. But Lucas tried to make things better for the fans and Best by improving the character of Jar Jar in Attack of the Clones (making him useful). By making Rose still useless but throwing her into the sideline, this feels like it's legitimising the fan hate towards Tran. It also made Jannah feel like she was a replacement for Rose... I think that much of Jannah's role in the movie, especially the assault on that Star Destroyer deck, could've been done by Rose. Rose should've teamed up with Finn to take out that tower. Why Jannah? One of the poignant things that Rose did in The Last Jedi was verbalise the Rebel/Resistance cause... when she saved Finn's life she said that they will win not by hate but by love. This is how Luke defeated Palpatine - through love (his love for Anakin and Anakin's love for him). And ultimately, it's how Rey was able to destroy Palpatine and how Ben was able to resurrect her - through love. And the whole reason why Palpatine won at the end of Revenge of the Sith was through hate. This has been a recurring theme in the Star Wars saga -- the struggle between love and hate, and it was Rose who articulated and embodied this over-arcing principle. But no, let's just make her... there.

Rose's uselessness in The Last Jedi is a legitimate criticism - one that I share. But I don't think that sidelining her was the answer. Just make her useful! The problem with Rose wasn't because she was Asian or that she kissed Finn or any of that stupid nonsense - it's because you could remove Rose from the story and nothing consequential would change. She was useless. And guess what? Same in The Rise of Skywalker! You could remove Rose from the story and nothing much would change. She doesn't do anything that no other nameless Resistance personnel could've done. There's no more compelling arc in her character... no reference to her sister or feelings for Finn. Nope nope nopety nope! She was arguably even MORE useless in Rise of the Skywalker than in The Last Jedi. It's just less noticeable because she has bugger all screen time.

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RE: Armitage Hux

I personally think that it was a nice surprise that he was the spy. It makes sense to me because Kylo Ren always treated him like crap, both in The Force Awakens, but especially in The Last Jedi. I liked how Hux said that he didn't even care if the Resistance won or lost, he just needed Kylo Ren to lose. This was a personal vendetta. On one hand, I do agree that his character was wasted and it would've be nice to see him do more... but on the other hand, having him be shot by Allegiant General Pryde also made sense as it showed that Pryde wasn't an idiot and is more attune to the old school Imperial way of dealing with under-performing officers. I liked the follow up line of, "We've found the spy." It felt similar to the spirit of, "You have failed me for the last time, Admiral." Although the even more menacing part with Vader was the follow up line of, "You are in command now, Admiral Piett!" Kinda sucks being promoted in the Empire.

[drifand]

I think I heard Bobba Fett didn't die either. < I could be wrong
According to the Novelisation the Emperor used all his energy when being thrown down to the reactor to create a wormhole to teleport but at the same time drained up almost his entire life, hence you got the draining the life of Rey and Ben scene to regain his strength.

I actually felt they went into Youtube and took out all the main hate about what fans didn't like, consolidate and analyse, and then hand pick what they wanted to fix to please the fans. There were a lot of fans wanting to see Rey as Palpatine's daughter as speculation. The main issue was they needed a super villain to come into play without us asking who the heck is that! It was bad enough with speculation of Snoke and it needed some closure.

Technically, I was a bit surprised I didn't mind the movie, I thought it was going to be quite bad after the previous episode.

I felt the Han Solo part was required, it needed that emotional push to totally make Ben understand what he has done and what he has to do going forward. Yes its not a force ghost, just a basic conscious in Ben's mind that his dad spoke to him.

Finn being force sensitive was unnecessary, I don't think it contributed imo.

I think the part when Chewie is still in grief over Leia's death could have been done up better. I dont know how to describe but felt insensitive or something , like he just got up and continued.

[philby]

• No real wasted scenes or pointless character arcs as we saw in The Last Jedi (re: Canto Bite/casino scene, Finn & Rose's meaningless adventure)

[list]Lots of neat Easter Eggs. Anyone else notice that Anthony Daniels appeared as a Rebel pilot manning the gun of the Millennium Falcon?

That is Wedge in the turret, not Anthony Daniels.

The middle of this movie is a macguffin quest, just like in TLJ. How is it better?

[drifand]

That is Wedge in the turret, not Anthony Daniels.

The middle of this movie is a macguffin quest, just like in TLJ. How is it better?

Are you referring to the quest in the desert? As it was supposed to be Only Rey's quest, and part of that scene was Kylo's purpose to show her true powers and he did. Or was it another scene you referring? < But yes I agree that everyone need not go and loosing Chewbacca in the process being caught.

Or the quest to reset C3PO?

As for Rose, no comment. She shouldn't been picked imo. I wont go in more because is bound to upset people on either side.