American Election

[High_Q]

I couldn't believe it but I got a MAGA guy coming through my register at work today. He was spouting Trump propaganda. What made it even stranger is that he is an Asian guy that had a very thick Asian accent, exactly the type of guy Trump would want to be thrown in jail or worse for simply existing.

Sometimes, these ethnic minority individuals living in Western democracies are strongly supportive of Trump because they adhere to a 'Jesus can save your soul, but only John Wayne can save your life' brand of Christianity. Sometimes, they believe that only the Trump administration is able to defeat the totalitarian regimes that these individuals escaped from.

You'll be surprised how high MAGA support is amongst older Vietnamese-Australians, or recent migrants from Hong Kong or Taiwan. A similar phenomenon in the US, where Trump is popular amongst some Latinos (e.g. Cuban-Americans). All these have an instinctive revulsion to anything that smacks of 'Communism'. They lean heavily to the right politically.

[griffin]

I was watching his speech at the white house to his crowd of supporters, telling them to walk to the capital building while it was in session (to validate biden's election win), and that he would walk with them to it... but then stayed at the white house so that he wouldn't be caught in the middle of it.

[shockNwave]

The reason why so many have a soft spot for Trump is because he seized upon the anger that exists in the Rust Belt voters better than other Republicans by being a demagogue instead of a reasonable man.

Q. So what's the difference between the Rust Belt and the Sea of Rust?
A. The latter contains zombies that refuse to be duped.

[griffin]

It's going to be a long 10 days...

The civilian-let coup that he orchestrated (an hour of firing up the crowd at the white house and then directing them to the Congress building) failed, and he has already floated the idea of calling in the military (since he is the Commander in Chief) to keep him in power, like military coups in other countries, leading to all 10 surviving former Secretaries of Defence to sign onto an open letter to the military, to NOT undertake such action if trump issues the order.

Despite the trump supporters chanting on camera for the vice president to be killed (for failing to do what trump wanted him to do in the senate that day), the VP still won't act against trump by attempting to invoke the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution (how to remove a President who is unable or unfit to fulfil his duties).

And without trump's usual social media accounts (the main ones were all suspended for using them to incite a riot that resulted in several deaths), his constant need for attention could have him doing something drastic just to have the regular media talking about him.

When it was first suggested to impeach trump again, I was thinking that it was a waste of resources and would probably eat into Democrat support if no Republicans supported it... because he was only president for 2 more weeks. And even if there was enough time, the Republicans hold the Senate until Biden and Harris are sworn in on January 20th (it may be 50-50 now, but while Pence is VP, he has the tie-breaking vote to block a senate trial). So the question is, is it worth impeaching him (charging him) if he will no longer be president to face trial in the Senate? Because, it isn't really known if a senate trial would be valid to someone who is no longer a sitting president... and even if it was valid, would enough Republican Senators be willing to support it and risk incurring the wrath or retribution of trump and his supporters. Most Republican members of congress needed his supporters to get elected, so they those people will do anything to get enough votes to stay in power.
One thing that might get some Republicans supporting another impeachment, is that if trump is convicted in the Senate trial, he would be unable to run for president again, which will give other Republicans a better chance at winning the candidacy.

[Seraphim Prime]

A similar phenomenon in the US, where Trump is popular amongst some Latinos (e.g. Cuban-Americans). All these have an instinctive revulsion to anything that smacks of 'Communism'. They lean heavily to the right politically.

A lot of the older Cuban-Americans have come directly from communist states and they know first hand the failings of their countries and the direct impact upon their own lives. Any potential talk of communism is very personal and emotional and wouldn't even countenance anything close to that. The second and third generation are much less inclined against "US communism"

When it was first suggested to impeach trump again, I was thinking that it was a waste of resources and would probably eat into Democrat support if no Republicans supported it... because he was only president for 2 more weeks. And even if there was enough time, the Republicans hold the Senate until Biden and Harris are sworn in on January 20th (it may be 50-50 now, but while Pence is VP, he has the tie-breaking vote to block a senate trial). So the question is, is it worth impeaching him (charging him) if he will no longer be president to face trial in the Senate? Because, it isn't really known if a senate trial would be valid to someone who is no longer a sitting president... and even if it was valid, would enough Republican Senators be willing to support it and risk incurring the wrath or retribution of trump and his supporters. Most Republican members of congress needed his supporters to get elected, so they those people will do anything to get enough votes to stay in power.
One thing that might get some Republicans supporting another impeachment, is that if trump is convicted in the Senate trial, he would be unable to run for president again, which will give other Republicans a better chance at winning the candidacy.

The only benefit of impeachment would be to ensure he couldn't run again in 4 years time. Even though the Democrat / Republican divide is 50-50, I'm sure you could get some on the record anti-Trump (and anti-recent actions) Republicans to vote for impeachment, if it could be argued about saving the soul of the party - eg Romney.


It's going to be very interesting to see where the Republican Party goes after this. It's no longer the party of McCain (and even Bush - both HW and W). Ted Cruz had always been at the head of an insurgency within the party with the Tea Party caucus and is appears to be angling to be the new heir apparent. He may not have personally liked Trump, but appreciates the new voters he's managed to activate.

[shockNwave]

It looks like Mike Pence doesn't want to invoke the 25th amendment because he doesn't want to be remembered as Jaime Lannister the kingslayer.😱

[griffin]

The next 24 hours will be interesting, as the House votes on Impeachment, and fearing for their lives has already persuaded some Republicans in the House to support the measure... so we'll see how many jump the trump wagon. (probably not a huge amount though, as about 150 of the 200 Republican House members were supporting trump's bid to block the Senate from officially recognising Biden as the next President... even after their lives were being threatened by rioters who were intent on capturing or killing both Democrat and Republican politicians if Biden was officially recognised)

I've been watching the US news programs on SBS, and the more they investigate the storming of the Capital Building, the worse it gets... with people who have been arrested being found to have posted up intentions of taking hostages and even killing politicians live in front of cameras, as well as organising this days before the event in the event it was considered "necessary to keep their president in power" (and trump spent an hour firing up these people to believe that they had to act now, before the Senate took their country away from them)... and with more footage from the day shows up, we see gear/equipment being brought in by the rioters that was police and military grade.
People were assaulting police while holding "blue lives matter" flags... showing that they had no interest in supporting police, but were just using it to undermine the Black Lives Matter movement.

And we keep hearing more about federal agencies that did know about the day turning violent (the FBI had internal memos of internet chatter about intentions of people in the crowd to be violent), but with so many federal agencies and oversight agencies gutted by trump of their leadership (removing anyone willing to investigate him), the resources were limited and slow to react.
Meanwhile, of the limited number of police on site (despite everyone knowing that something would happen that day), so many of them were willing to not stand in the way of the rioters, or even supported them... something that wouldn't have happened if it was a crowd of black people walking towards the Capital Building (and we saw how there was thousands of military and police deployed when it was a BLM march... something positive that wanted to bring about equality, not undermine it like this attempt to undermine democracy).

Putting it simply, it will be remembered in history as the day that one branch of the American government (the Executive) rallied its troops & supporters, to launch an assault on another branch of the government (the Legislature), with the intention of capturing the Capital Building to force the elected members to submit to the will of the President. The Capital Building hasn't been over-run by a hostile force for over 200 years, and an insurrection of people against their elected Congress last occurred during the American Civil War in the late 19th century.

And the people online behind the more militaristic elements of that insurrection last week, are also intending to target Legislative buildings in all US states, on or before inauguration day, if trump is not allowed to remain as president... so the next 7 days could see even worse things happen in America, and with trump supporters now openly abusing and threatening Republican politicians in public, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few more irrational trump supporters willing to take a few pot-shots at Biden during the inauguration ceremony to earn praise from their beloved leader (it was probably a good thing that the post-ceremony parade was cancelled due to covid, as I doubt Biden would make it all the way to the end alive).

(one thing I heard today that was amusing - it was claimed that trump has now accepted that he can't pardon himself, so has refused to give out pardons to anyone else... if he can't have one, no one can. (we'll see if this is true, if he pardons anyone in the next week, other than family members)