The Universal Counting Method

[loophole]

But if you're going to kitbash them into a substantially different toy/character/incarnation, then it wouldn't count.

in other words if stays the same character yes it counts but if you are repainting and slighlty customising a figure to be a different character then no it would not count e.g. Hot Rod into Wildrider because then it wouldnt be a HasTak official product or repaint

[GoktimusPrime]

Pretty much, yes.

[jaydisc]

How are Music Label Frenzy and Rumble counted? As 0, 1 or 2?

[iceburn]

How are Music Label Frenzy and Rumble counted? As 0, 1 or 2?

haha..might have to split them!!! pity

[GoktimusPrime]

They count as two individuals even though they're connected... think of them as conjoined twins.

[SofaMan]

in other words if stays the same character yes it counts but if you are repainting and slighlty customising a figure to be a different character then no it would not count e.g. Hot Rod into Wildrider because then it wouldnt be a HasTak official product or repaint

Pretty much, yes.

See, this seems weird to me - we allow doubles. I mean, if I have two Sideswipes and repaint one as a Red Alert, either way that should count as two. Why does adding some paint applications to a Sideswipe (which does count) make it no longer a countable toy? At worst, it's a Sideswipe with some paint on it.

This is a very philosophical thread - what is the qualia of a Transformer? I think we are finding that these discussions are very useful.

[Paulbot]

Yeah I would count a kitbased based on a Transformer toy, for example: "I have two Universe Sunstreakers, one is repainted as Breakdown". However I wouldn't count "Machine Man toy Leader-1 repainted as Starscream" because although it's meant to be a TF character it's a not a TF toy.

Edit: I realise by this post I might be in danger of prolonging a discussion that maybe should be in another thread, leaving this thread to just deal with questions about articles previously democratically voted on...

[SofaMan]

Edit: I realise by this post I might be in danger of prolonging a discussion that maybe should be in another thread, leaving this thread to just deal with questions about articles previously democratically voted on...

Well, I see this particular point as still being under discussion in search of consensus. Gok has made a assertion about what he thinks, and some other people have made other opinions. I don't see this point as one of 'settled law' at this point. None of the articles at present make specific reference to kitbashes/repaints.

If it's made by HasTak, it meets Articles 1 and it counts. If it's a multiple, it meets Article 10 and it counts. For the purposes of counting, the name we call it is irrelevant. I'm sure most of us refer to Universe 2.0 Tankor as Octane, but whatever it's called it counts as one toy.

Therefore, a duplicate Sideswipe repainted as Red Alert meets Articles 1 and 10 and therefore should be counted, regardless of whether it gets called Red Alert or not.

[Paulbot]

I don't see this point as one of 'settled law' at this point. None of the articles at present make specific reference to kitbashes/repaints.

I agree and wonder therefore if Goktimus would prefer this discussed (even voted on?) elsewhere?

[GoktimusPrime]

I would like to resolve this using existing articles before resorting to making a new one because a lot of people feel that there are already too many articles in the UCM already. So let's see if this can be sorted using the existing rules, if we can't come to a resolution then I'll open it for voting.

I believe that kitbashes and custom-character repaints do not count under Article01 because you are essentially re-making a toy into a "new" toy. For example, if you were to modify a Universe Sideswipe into Universe Red Alert, that Universe Red Alert was not made under licence from HasTak. Therefore it does not count. The base toy Sideswipe was manufactured under licence, sure, but once it's modified into a "new" character like Red Alert, then you have re-made it into essentially a new toy-character which wasn't done under licence or with permission from HasTak.

If you repainted a toy to improve on it or touch it up, but still basically kept it as the same character, then that still counts because your modification isn't intended to deviate it away from its original character-intent. For example, when loophole repainted Universe Sunstreaker, it's still Universe Sunstreaker - just with a nicer paint job.

It all boils down to intent. If you modify a toy with the intention that it won't be the same character afterwards, then it is no longer that same toy-character.

That's how I see it anyway... again, if you think that's too ambiguous and would rather see this issue put the poll then I'll go ahead and do it.