Canon

[Verno]

Goodness we've covered some interesting topics in this thread.

Maybe Cybetron is smaller, but because of the denser materials it's made from, it has the same or similar gravity to Earth..?

[GoktimusPrime]

Why wouldn't a planetoid with enough gravity to keep objects (and its inhabitants) from drifting off the surface, not have the gravity to attract and keep gasses or liquids? The lightest element (Hydrogen) is throughout the Universe, and this planet was mostly metal (or rock, depending on your source), so where's the impossibility that elements (Oxygen, Nitrogen) in between them could not exist?

A fair bit of the matter on Earth came from extra-terrestrial debris over the millions of years, including during its formation with the rest of the Solar System... why couldn't Cybertron have formed with, or attracted, these elements?

Not impossible, but what an incredible FLUKE that an alien world with NO biomatter or biosphere (or even soil) can sustain an Earthlike atmosphere! What are the odds?!?

Unless a writer tried to explain its existence, or tried to explain how it couldn't have existed in the first place, I don't see how or why some fans make such a big deal about it,

Cos it's fun for us nerds! <snorting.laff> That's why I enjoy reading books like this which basically takes the Star Wars universe and tears it to shreds with science! It doesn't mean I've liking Star Wars, but I still find it an interesting read.

When we watch or read fantasy and scifi we often suspend disbelief of high improbable or impossible things; but every once in a while I find it interesting to stop and think about what would be possible and what wouldn't. As Kevin Smith once said, if you ever had a rocket pack you'd "burn your ass off."

or even claim that Cybertron shouldn't have an atmosphere or liquids at any time.

Not just any liquids... but water. And as Sky Shadow rightly pointed out, canonical evidence from G1 indicates that water doesn't exist on Cybertron. And yeah, that waterfall in BM could be some other kind of liquid. HCl perhaps.

Think we could say humans abiltiy to survive on Cybertron boils down to plot device meant for children.

"A wizard did it."

Maybe Cybetron is smaller, but because of the denser materials it's made from, it has the same or similar gravity to Earth..?

This is true, although it would have to be extremely dense because Cybertron has a LOT of subterranean cavities!

[LordCyrusOmega]

If we consider the number of inhabitants of Cybertron then factor in their size I'd say Cybertron has to be bigger than earth. Gravity is questionable though. It could be the ame as Earth because if it wasn't then Transformers would float away here. Real Life application of theory: Cars don't fly away.
Also given that Cybertron was knocked out of orbit gravity would have been interesting until it fell into orbit again.

[GoktimusPrime]

Larger planets would have stronger gravity -- but I guess density plays a role too.

[Verno]

Ok, well as we're talking indepth analysis of everything:

What are peoples thoughts on the Timescale of Transformers History?

For mine, it's just far too ridiculously long. They've been fighting for millions of years. The same characters. They must be pretty crap at fighting if they've been battling for that long.

I really think G1 needs to be redone. Keep big events, and if need be, move some of them. Get the Ark to crash on Earth later if need be, it can't just sit there for millions of years while the War carries on at home.

Go back and do G1 right.

[griffin]

Didn't Blaster say that wasn't actually water on the letters page?



We know that water is rare on Cybertron in the Marvel TFU, because Octane knew that "thousands of vorns ago during an outbreak on Cybertron, a rare chemical was found" and Ratbat claimed that water was "a chemical so rare that its very existence is suspect!" (Not really that suspect, since Ratbat had used lots of it in his lamest plot ever - the Car Wash Of Doom.) But also not so rare that Bumblebee and Ironhide explicitly knew what water is in their expositions in #1.

That's why I specifically didn't mention 'water', only liquids.
Who knows what sort of chemical compounds are common on Cybertron that take on the appearance of water (in a cartoon or comic)...

[theheretic]

Ok, well as we're talking indepth analysis of everything:

What are peoples thoughts on the Timescale of Transformers History?

For mine, it's just far too ridiculously long. They've been fighting for millions of years. The same characters. They must be pretty crap at fighting if they've been battling for that long.

I really think G1 needs to be redone. Keep big events, and if need be, move some of them. Get the Ark to crash on Earth later if need be, it can't just sit there for millions of years while the War carries on at home.

Go back and do G1 right.

Re-do-G-1! youve gone mad. G1 is da bomb. Sure its got a whole bunch of plots that dont perfectly to fit together and sometimes contradict each other. But come on! It's G1! i don't know how many times I have to say G1 to get through to you so another couple of times.... G1 G1 G1 G1 G1 G1

[griffin]

Not impossible, but what an incredible FLUKE that an alien world with NO biomatter or biosphere (or even soil) can sustain an Earthlike atmosphere! What are the odds?!?

I don't see how atmospheric elements (oxygen, nitrogen are the main components) have to be tied to biomatter elements (carbon)? Our atmosphere existed before (carbon-based) life began.

Cos it's fun for us nerds! <snorting.laff> That's why I enjoy reading books like this which basically takes the Star Wars universe and tears it to shreds with science! It doesn't mean I've liking Star Wars, but I still find it an interesting read.

When we watch or read fantasy and scifi we often suspend disbelief of high improbable or impossible things; but every once in a while I find it interesting to stop and think about what would be possible and what wouldn't. As Kevin Smith once said, if you ever had a rocket pack you'd "burn your ass off."

That's something that bugs me... there are people in fandoms that like to rant on, to seriously evaluate, justify or question the plausibility of a fictitious story and its plot devices, but then turn around to say that it all shouldn't be taken seriously when more plausible, opposing science or theories are brought in to it.

Ok, well as we're talking indepth analysis of everything:

What are peoples thoughts on the Timescale of Transformers History?

For mine, it's just far too ridiculously long. They've been fighting for millions of years. The same characters. They must be pretty crap at fighting if they've been battling for that long.

I really think G1 needs to be redone. Keep big events, and if need be, move some of them. Get the Ark to crash on Earth later if need be, it can't just sit there for millions of years while the War carries on at home.

Go back and do G1 right.

In my various stories I wrote back in the mid-90s, I never prescribed to the 4million year concept. It just wasn't plausible when you see how much damage they cause in just on year. (Regardless of later claims that the war had periods of peace throughout that time - which would have to be lengthy periods... so wouldn't be the same war. We have wars here separated by just a few years, and they are given different names or objectives.)

In one story I wrote, I had the conflict lasting about 5000 years, on and off, with them crashing on earth in present day (to be revived immediately).

And if the war, any war, goes for that sort of extended period of time, it's no wonder the Movie Optimus is so bloodthirsty and callus.

[Verno]

The characters don't change, just the stories.

Go back and re-do the stories so they're a bit more thrilling, instead of Optimus being killed by Megatron in a computer game.

[Hursticon]

I don't know, I've often thought that the time scale with G1, specifically the many wars, is just a little... long really.

I mean, look at Humans, with our pitiful technology we could quite easily destroy ourselves in an instant literally but the TFs have had wars spanning millions of years.
Either TFs have some really odd rules of engagement or, like in the G1 cartoon, are horribly pathetic marksman.

I know that there is the fact that they are robots that can be easily rebuilt but you'd think that after the 10th year that someone would come up with a weapon that would extinguish sparks rather than just maim chassis.