Canon

[Sky Shadow]

In the G1 comics, when the Autobot Classic Pretenders and Rescue Patrol found Primus; it's a technorganic core - even with water leading toward the centre (which Seawatch happily exploits when he takes out Bludgeon )

Didn't Blaster say that wasn't actually water on the letters page?

Unless a writer tried to explain its existence, or tried to explain how it couldn't have existed in the first place, I don't see how or why some fans make such a big deal about it, or even claim that Cybertron shouldn't have an atmosphere or liquids at any time.

We know that water is rare on Cybertron in the Marvel TFU, because Octane knew that "thousands of vorns ago during an outbreak on Cybertron, a rare chemical was found" and Ratbat claimed that water was "a chemical so rare that its very existence is suspect!" (Not really that suspect, since Ratbat had used lots of it in his lamest plot ever - the Car Wash Of Doom.) But also not so rare that Bumblebee and Ironhide explicitly knew what water is in their expositions in #1.

[griffin]

Didn't Blaster say that wasn't actually water on the letters page?



We know that water is rare on Cybertron in the Marvel TFU, because Octane knew that "thousands of vorns ago during an outbreak on Cybertron, a rare chemical was found" and Ratbat claimed that water was "a chemical so rare that its very existence is suspect!" (Not really that suspect, since Ratbat had used lots of it in his lamest plot ever - the Car Wash Of Doom.) But also not so rare that Bumblebee and Ironhide explicitly knew what water is in their expositions in #1.

That's why I specifically didn't mention 'water', only liquids.
Who knows what sort of chemical compounds are common on Cybertron that take on the appearance of water (in a cartoon or comic)...

[griffin]

Not impossible, but what an incredible FLUKE that an alien world with NO biomatter or biosphere (or even soil) can sustain an Earthlike atmosphere! What are the odds?!?

I don't see how atmospheric elements (oxygen, nitrogen are the main components) have to be tied to biomatter elements (carbon)? Our atmosphere existed before (carbon-based) life began.

Cos it's fun for us nerds! <snorting.laff> That's why I enjoy reading books like this which basically takes the Star Wars universe and tears it to shreds with science! It doesn't mean I've liking Star Wars, but I still find it an interesting read.

When we watch or read fantasy and scifi we often suspend disbelief of high improbable or impossible things; but every once in a while I find it interesting to stop and think about what would be possible and what wouldn't. As Kevin Smith once said, if you ever had a rocket pack you'd "burn your ass off."

That's something that bugs me... there are people in fandoms that like to rant on, to seriously evaluate, justify or question the plausibility of a fictitious story and its plot devices, but then turn around to say that it all shouldn't be taken seriously when more plausible, opposing science or theories are brought in to it.

Ok, well as we're talking indepth analysis of everything:

What are peoples thoughts on the Timescale of Transformers History?

For mine, it's just far too ridiculously long. They've been fighting for millions of years. The same characters. They must be pretty crap at fighting if they've been battling for that long.

I really think G1 needs to be redone. Keep big events, and if need be, move some of them. Get the Ark to crash on Earth later if need be, it can't just sit there for millions of years while the War carries on at home.

Go back and do G1 right.

In my various stories I wrote back in the mid-90s, I never prescribed to the 4million year concept. It just wasn't plausible when you see how much damage they cause in just on year. (Regardless of later claims that the war had periods of peace throughout that time - which would have to be lengthy periods... so wouldn't be the same war. We have wars here separated by just a few years, and they are given different names or objectives.)

In one story I wrote, I had the conflict lasting about 5000 years, on and off, with them crashing on earth in present day (to be revived immediately).

And if the war, any war, goes for that sort of extended period of time, it's no wonder the Movie Optimus is so bloodthirsty and callus.

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't see how atmospheric elements (oxygen, nitrogen are the main components) have to be tied to biomatter elements (carbon)? Our atmosphere existed before (carbon-based) life began.

Wasn't the Earth's atmosphere initially toxic? I thought it only became breathable after microorganisms produced oxygen as a by-product and gave birth to the biosphere.

That's something that bugs me... there are people in fandoms that like to rant on, to seriously evaluate, justify or question the plausibility of a fictitious story and its plot devices, but then turn around to say that it all shouldn't be taken seriously when more plausible, opposing science or theories are brought in to it.

There's canonical or continuity logic, and there's scientific logic -- and the two don't always go together. As I said before, when reading or viewing science fiction and fantasy, the audience suspends disbelief for a lot of things. But there are limitations to this. While audiences can suspend sufficient disbelief in mass-shifting to believe that a robot full of mechanical components can transform into a car (where did all those internal robot parts go?) - they may not be able to do the same in believing that a giant robot can transform into a small hand held pistol or walkman.

And different audiences have different tolerances of disbelief... those with zero tolerance are most like those who just hate scifi and fantasy and won't have anything to do with them.

[Hursticon]

Wasn't the Earth's atmosphere initially toxic? I thought it only became breathable after microorganisms produced oxygen as a by-product and gave birth to the biosphere.

Toxic to whom though, to us - yeah, most likely but to a Robot that doesn't 'breathe' then probably not - There is a number of theories floating around about how oxygen was initially produced, personally I believe our Sister Planet Thea had a hand in it as she still affects our planet to this day.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah but I'm talking about how Cybertron's atmosphere is easily breathable for humans. Throughout Transformers we frequently see humans (and Nebulans) on Cybertron breathing its air as if it were the same on Earth. I can believe that, being a near-human species, the air on Nebulos could be the same as Earth... but Cybertron... while perhaps not entirely impossible, seems perhaps rather remarkable.

[Verno]

Another reason we should go back and re-write G1. Add it to the mounting case.