I need to vent!

[jena]

Now now......Im 6ft and 110kg and I drive a Ford Fiesta and I know I can escape from people who chase me through the shopping mall by baddies in a Corvette and conduct beach landings with British Marines.

So nah nah nah

I love that I knew exactly what that link was of without even looking. One of the best car reviews ever. But I'm sorry, I prefer my Focus. The Fiesta is just too small and I'm shorter/smaller than you! But A+ for driving a Ford anyway.

[jena]

@bowspearer that guy sounds like an ignorant twit. There's no excuse for that kind of attitude, especially since you weren't being unreasonable, in my opinion at least. How frustrating for you.

[Prowl]

Thoroughly disgusted and furious right now and I'd laugh at the irony if it weren't so blatantly offensive. On tonight's episode of Highway Patrol, one of the officers referred to a suspect on camera and before approaching them as acting like a "spastic".

It's bad enough that so much neo-Nazi bigotry exists in society, but to have it come from a member of the Police force who are meant to be the upholders of Law and Order is nothing short of inexcusable and depraved.

It's ironic- Highway Patrol is meant to be a PR stunt for the Victorian police, yet all comments like that do is paint the entire Victorian Police Force as a pack of neo-Nazi pigs.

Out of interest what makes them "Neo Nazis"? I understand it is a insensitive comment to make but but why is anyone that makes those comments a Neo Nazi? Why not Neo Fascist as by branding them Nazi's you are guilty of the same genralisations that you are accusing the police of? Fascism exists in many forms not just the Nazi variety

Or why not just arseholes as I hardly think that making a insenstitive remark is akin to Nazi eugenics & I doubt they are looking to put people on a bus to Hadamar.

Also why is it Neo Nazi bigotry in general? Bigotry exists in all races & creeds not just Central European politics from 75 years ago.

[bowspearer]

Out of interest what makes them "Neo Nazis"? I understand it is a insensitive comment to make but but why is anyone that makes those comments a Neo Nazi? Why not Neo Fascist as by branding them Nazi's you are guilty of the same genralisations that you are accusing the police of? Fascism exists in many forms not just the Nazi variety

Or why not just arseholes as I hardly think that making a insenstitive remark is akin to Nazi eugenics & I doubt they are looking to put people on a bus to Hadamar.

Also why is it Neo Nazi bigotry in general? Bigotry exists in all races & creeds not just Central European politics from 75 years ago.

Actually your argument here is guilty of the very mis-attribution you accuse mine of.

The problem is you've completely misattributed what fascism is.

To quote FDR in 1938: "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."

In other words, while the Nazi regime was certainly fascist, it was not fascism which drove the extermination of the Holocaust.

Now to deal with the Nazi aspect of things.

Hitler didn't start the Holocaust, he merely jumped on the bandwagon that was already rolling away in Germany at the time.

To quote Binding and Hoche (1920) in their Permission for the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Life:

Their life is absolutely pointless, but they do not regard it as being unbearable. They are a terrible, heavy burden upon their relatives and society as a whole. Their death would not even create the smallest gap -- except perhaps in the feelings of their mothers or loyal nurses.

Furthermore it was this very school of Social Darwinist thought which ideologically fueled the genocide of the Holocaust. Why wouldn't it have- the moment you apply this ideology in any productive way, you wind up in a situation where you are at best, saying that it would be best for the good of the productivity of society if those with a disability died out. Funnily enough, that fits neatly into exactly what is meant by slurs like "spaz", "spastic", "retard" and "tard".

You bring up the visceral example of loading the disabled on a bus to Hadamar, but that's a bit of an irrational argument. After all, only a few of Hitler's supporters post 1942 loaded the ovens. Only a few of them manned the gas chambers. Only a few of them manned the gas chambers. Only a few of them rounded up the "undesirables" into cattle cars and transported them to concentration camps, were members of the Gestapo or were members of the SS.

The vast majority simply agreed with what Hitler was doing, that the "undesirables" needed to be wiped out "for the good of the volk".

That police woman might not have been experimenting on or forcibly sterilising the disabled, but she was actively perpetuating the bigotry that says that they should be- meaning that ideologically it ammounts to the same thing. Otherwise you might as well argue that the conviction of Albert Speer in the Nuremberg trials was unjust because all he was was a number cruncher (which would be an utterly ludicrous argument).

Whether you want to split hairs and call it Neo-Nazism, Nazism, Nazi sympathising, or some other term which rightfully and shamefully brands someone as a pro-eugenic scumbag, the underlying ideology is identical.

Then again, I completely understand why so many are reluctant to admit to this form of bigotry being what it is. Considering how much disability discrimination gets a free pass globally compared to racism and sexism; if society actually admitted to this being what it is, then a significant number of people would have to admit to the ideological swastikas they've been wearing in their hearts for some time now.

[Prowl]

I won't bother going over your entire post as this is far from the forum to do so but a couple of comments.

You bring up the visceral example of loading the disabled on a bus to Hadamar, but that's a bit of an irrational argument. After all, only a few of Hitler's supporters post 1942 loaded the ovens. Only a few of them manned the gas chambers. Only a few of them manned the gas chambers. Only a few of them rounded up the "undesirables" into cattle cars and transported them to concentration camps, were members of the Gestapo or were members of the SS.

Or were members of the military on convalescent leave or the Order Police (who ultimately fell under the command of Reichsfhurer Himmler but were not SS members) or local volunteers or were militias set up by the German occupying forces to root out all undesirables. It was far from just the SS & Gestapo who actively participated in all aspects of the holocaust.

That police woman might not have been experimenting on or forcibly sterilising the disabled, but she was actively perpetuating the bigotry that says that they should be- meaning that ideologically it ammounts to the same thing. Otherwise you might as well argue that the conviction of Albert Speer in the Nuremberg trials was unjust because all he was was a number cruncher (which would be an utterly ludicrous argument).

This is like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. You can draw a line between a police officer casually using a common & often espressed sentiment that some one is a "spastic" with perpetuating the ideals that lead to genocide.

Wonders never cease..

As for Speer he was a great deal more than a number cruncher.

Then again, I completely understand why so many are reluctant to admit to this form of bigotry being what it is. Considering how much disability discrimination gets a free pass globally compared to racism and sexism; if society actually admitted to this being what it is, then a significant number of people would have to admit to the ideological swastikas they've been wearing in their hearts for some time now.

Are you studying to teach this drivel? So in short what you are saying is anyone who uses those disparaging terms must have a ideological swasticka in their heart?

I must wear jackboots & smash babies skulls for fun because I use those terms daily & a lot of other terms that would offend your sensibilities. I make no apologies for doing so & will continue to do so without being a Neo Fascist in my heart.

[bowspearer]

Or were members of the military on convalescent leave or the Order Police (who ultimately fell under the command of Reichsfhurer Himmler but were not SS members) or local volunteers or were militias set up by the German occupying forces to root out all undesirables. It was far from just the SS & Gestapo who actively participated in all aspects of the holocaust.

To begin with, I also made reference to groups other than the Gestapo and SS when mentioning the prison guards at the concentration camps.

This is like 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. You can draw a line between a police officer casually using a common & often espressed sentiment that some one is a "spastic" with perpetuating the ideals that lead to genocide.

You mean by comparing them to a viewpoint of someone with cerebal palsy which ideologically fits in completely with that quote from 1920 which I brought up.

Are you studying to teach this drivel? So in short what you are saying is anyone who uses those disparaging terms must have a ideological swasticka in their heart?

I must wear jackboots & smash babies skulls for fun because I use those terms daily & a lot of other terms that would offend your sensibilities. I make no apologies for doing so & will continue to do so without being a Neo Fascist in my heart.

Talk about a ludicrous argument. There is a vast difference between wearing jackboots or driving a Voltswagon and perpetuating stereotypes with promote the very ideology which drove the likes of AKTIONT4 & AKTION14. We are talking about bigotry here, which those of us who have faced it our entire lives are all too aware of as well as the suffering to where it leads as well as leads. If you think that every single instance of genocide on this planet rooted in bigotry didn't start out with some kind of slurs and bigoted antagonism, then you have an incredibly poor grasp of history.

Furthermore I suggest you take a look at peer reviewed studies out there which have demonstrated significantly higher levels of abuse suffered by the disabled as opposed to the abled, and then try telling me that it's "just a slur".

If you use those terms on a daily basis, then as much as you hate hearing it, yes, you are glorifying the attitudes which drove the Holocaust every bit as much as someone who uses racist terminology glorifies the kind of hatred actions of the likes of the KKK. If you're that ignorant that you cannot see that then I truly feel sorry for you.

[griffin]

A reminder to all...
Any unresolvable issues like religion, politics or social ideologies is not to be debated here. There are sites out there catering for that.
This is not a site for picking on people and their comments just because they see things differently to your point of view. This is a toy collector site. Ignore it (non-toy stuff you don't agree with) and move on.

[bowspearer]

Griffin, just for the record, I wasn't trying to turn this into a political debate, merely venting based on bigotry I've witnessed and encountered most of my life (I test in the genius range on IQ tests but most of my life I've been treated like a worthless idiot because of my disability)- in the same way that I'd expect anyone else who'd witnessed bigotry to be able to vent about it on here, be it sexism, racism, or any other form of bigotry.

It's just sad that in this day and age when we're supposed to be so enlightened, that people would actually come on here and minimise, trivialise and diminish said bigotry when another board member had been clearly and genuinely offended by it.....

[gantz]

Damn......

I have missed too much Hercules, I am gonna have download that entire show

1st world problems, I know...

[SkyWarp91]

Damn......

I have missed too much Hercules, I am gonna have download that entire show

1st world problems, I know...

You could buy the series which is on sale now for about $150 at jb-hi fi