The Great War - What's it all for?

[Prowl]

Wow, um, best cool your heels their Prowl, a Mod might not take too kindly to all that.

So, for the most part, it was for control of Cybertron?

Fair enough. I did ** the swearing & tried to keep it PGish. That said Prime grinds my gears helping the weak flesh creatured when we should make them work for us not us work for them.

Before you say "but Megatron shot you in the movie" I will let you in a secret. It was all a set up . When has Prowl ever gone down from a single shot? NEVER!!!!

[Arcee]

I am a cop so I work for whoever is in power.

Sounds like the Prowl I love.

Okay, I'd say that orphan was probably Sentinel Prime - he might have been ignorant of his destiny at first, then later found out about it - just like Optimus. After all, if he grew up with no other Primes around, then it's possible.

Reasons to support this:
+ Sentinel Prime can transform, unlike the original 7 Primes.
+ The original 7 Primes all died, save for the one who became the Fallen - who eventually died from shame (loss of face ).

It's possible that Jetfire never knew the name of this orphan and so when Sam mentioned "Optimus Prime" he may have assumed that it was that orphan whereas in fact he is the orphan's descendant.

You don't say...that does make MUCH better sense to the whole logic of the story.

Though I suspect that at the time the ROTF story was written up whoever wrote it probably didn't intend to make the orphan Sentinel (though they did mention him and his some strange experiment unfathomable by earth physics), his whole presence in DOTM feels like the idea of him was quite new, not much in connection with whatever has been told in the previous movie stories. After all DOTM was created by a whole different team of screenwriters.

But...anyway...yeah, Sentinel being that orphan would make up a LOT for those logical problems.

I thought Megatron smashed them after he took the Fallen's sarcophagus. <shrug>

Nah; in Defiance #1, Optimus was trying to argue with Megatron over rights over the excavate sites and artifacts, when Elita-One rushed to them to report the finding of the decepticon plate. The dialogue goes:

Elita-One: Sir, you have to come quick, we've found one intact.

Optimus: Intact? With the others?

Elita-One: Yes, sir. It's the only one we've found so far.

Megatron: Only one, what?

Elita-One: Well, sir, we don't know what they are. The site is still far from being fully revealed. But so far the objects all show a pattern.

Megatron: Objects? Just what kind of objects?

Elita-One: Well, they're broken, except the one. Why don't you come see for youself?

A rather simplistic but otherwise accurate summary. But you were saying that the movie origin story "is one of the best TF stories ever written despite its logical flaws" -- I personally don't think it's as well structured as the G1 comic origin story(stories) and in terms of overall writing, I find the G1 comics and Beast Wars to be better written anyway.

I wait to testify that; like I said, I haven't touched any G1 comic (I did buy them but...you know...) or anything BWs so far. Everyone's been saying how great the BWs stories are so I really look forward to seeing it for myself . But until then, I stay where I am in saying that I like the movie origins (to be more specific, the combination of Defiance and Foundation only) most appealing to me.

Years ago there was a photocomic printed in ToyFare magazine that explained this...
* Image of Prime's Trailer lifting weights at the gym
* Image of Prime's Trailer crowd surfing at a baseball game
* Image of Prime's Trailer and He-Man throwing dollar bills at pole-dancing strippers
...so now you know.

I'd die for a glimpse of that, lol

That said Prime grinds my gears helping the weak flesh creatured when we should make them work for us not us work for them.

Again, sounds like the Prowl I love.

Before you say "but Megatron shot you in the movie" I will let you in a secret. It was all a set up . When has Prowl ever gone down from a single shot? NEVER!!!!

That's the part I hate most in that movie...and his whole head flaming orange smoke...

Another one I hate most: Ultra Magnus got blasted into pieces -- under like what, just one shot from Galvatron? If he's really that weak OP would never have given him the Matrix in the first place.

And I've been unable to understand why a smashed Ultra Magnus can be easily fixed and revived by some junkion glue, when they can't even save a mostly complete Optimus Prime???

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I'd die for a glimpse of that, lol

Another one I hate most: Ultra Magnus got blasted into pieces -- under like what, just one shot from Galvatron? If he's really that weak OP would never have given him the Matrix in the first place.

And I've been unable to understand why a smashed Ultra Magnus can be easily fixed and revived by some junkion glue, when they can't even save a mostly complete Optimus Prime???

Yeah, if anyone can link to that that'd be awesome. The Odieverse just got another facet, booyah!

As a minor aside, Magnus got blasted a heap of times by a horde of Sweeps, and in the original script (which was sort of animated for) was going to be drawn and quartered by them (listen to the sound effect and watch the Sweeps laser blasts). The original script was pretty full-on truth be told.

[Hursticon]

Ignorance is a bliss (No...I actually want to shoot myself in the mouth and flush the remains of my body down the toilet )

LOL , wait-what?

Megatron like Fox news is fair & balanced.

Awesome analogy

LOL, I agree - I laughed good at that one!

More importantly, where does Optimus Prime's trailer go when he transforms to robot mode?

Years ago there was a photocomic printed in ToyFare magazine that explained this...
* Image of Prime's Trailer lifting weights at the gym
* Image of Prime's Trailer crowd surfing at a baseball game
* Image of Prime's Trailer and He-Man throwing dollar bills at pole-dancing strippers
...so now you know.

Oh man, lol, that would be awesome to see!

Another one I hate most: Ultra Magnus got blasted into pieces -- under like what, just one shot from Galvatron? If he's really that weak OP would never have given him the Matrix in the first place.

And I've been unable to understand why a smashed Ultra Magnus can be easily fixed and revived by some junkion glue, when they can't even save a mostly complete Optimus Prime???

Really?, if you think that series of events is bad you should see what happens to him in Headmasters; it's utterly ludicrous and yet thoroughly funny.

[Paulbot]

So, for the most part, it was for control of Cybertron?

Yes, pretty much always, using various means (Earth's resources, minicons, the AllSpark, the Cube, timetravel assassination plots, planet-wide reformatting and enslavement, Energon, Cyber planet keys, O parts, Dark Energon etc) as the way to achieve it.

The way Blackarachnia described it (in The Agenda Part 3 and IIRC) the "Great War" was what we saw in the US G1 cartoon, starting when they woke in the Ark in 1984 until the Rebirth in 2007.

[Hursticon]

The way Blackarachnia described it (in The Agenda Part 3 and IIRC) the "Great War" was what we saw in the US G1 cartoon, starting when they woke in the Ark in 1984 until the Rebirth in 2007.

That's how I always saw it.

[Verno]

Yes, pretty much always, using various means (Earth's resources, minicons, the AllSpark, the Cube, timetravel assassination plots, planet-wide reformatting and enslavement, Energon, Cyber planet keys, O parts, Dark Energon etc) as the way to achieve it.

The way Blackarachnia described it (in The Agenda Part 3 and IIRC) the "Great War" was what we saw in the US G1 cartoon, starting when they woke in the Ark in 1984 until the Rebirth in 2007.

So the little skirmish that had been going on for the previous thousand years or so wasn't that Great?

[GoktimusPrime]

Heh. Well, as I said before, we are looking at a recount of historical events as interpreted by Blackarachnia - most of which is historically accurate, but some things aren't.

The Autobot-Decepticon conflict had been waging on Cybertron millions of years before arriving on Cybertron - and continued to be waged for an additional four million years while the occupants of the Ark remained in stasis. In the G1 comics, Lord Straxus rose to power and the Autobots were driven underground (re: Autobase) under the leadership of Emirate Xaaron. In the G1 cartoon, Shockwave ruled over Cybertron in Megatron's absence and there was again underground resistance formed by Alpha Trion.

Even Blackarachnia's recount of how the Ark crashed on Earth wasn't entirely accurate. In Blackarachnia's recount we see the Nemesis engaging in ship-to-ship battle with the Ark above Earth, shooting down the Ark. In both the G1 comics and cartoon this didn't happen - the Decepticons boarded the Ark and fought the Autobots inside, and then the Ark crashed on Earth. Later when Megatron and Blackarachnia entered the Ark we see that there are both Autobots and Decepticons lying in stasis; awaiting reactivation in 1984C.E., which is historically accurate - but contradicts the part of Blackarachnia's recount where the Ark was shot down by the Nemesis.

But Blackarachnia's not exactly a historian - and while she does possess impressive knowledge of historical events, it would have been knowledge that she acquired on prehistoric Earth since that was where she was "born" -- she'd never been on Cybertron (at the time) to access more extensive historical archives.

[Verno]

But Blackarachnia's not exactly a historian - and while she does possess impressive knowledge of historical events, it would have been knowledge that she acquired on prehistoric Earth since that was where she was "born" -- she'd never been on Cybertron (at the time) to access more extensive historical archives.

Yes, this raises another interesting dilemma: Who was Blackarachnia.

I refuse to believe that Maximals in stasis were nothing more than blanks with Sparks. They had to have some kind of life or memories from before going into the pod.

Take Grimlock for example. He emerged from a Stasis Pod and was Grimlock, not someone else. Granted in some universes he's dead by the time of the signing of the Pax Cybertronia, but he retains all his memories.

Blackarachnia's pod wasn't damaged, so no risk of loss of memory there, she simply had a Shell Program put on top of her Maximal Programming.

Quandary.

[Paulbot]

I actually hate the idea that Airazor and Tigatron just happened to be two Maximals who happened to get injured just before the Axalon left Cybertron and just happen to be in two of the small number of statis pods that crashed which just happened to be close enough for the Maximals to get to them before the Predacons and they just happened to lose their memories and just happened to never be reminded of their past lives all just to sell two Cybertron repaints by the Collectors Club.

Makes much more sense to me for them to be newborn Transformers with the exception of Rampage (and in the expanded universe Grimlock).

But then I regard the Collectors Club fiction as only marginally more legit than fan fiction (that is).