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Thread: Transformers questions by newbies, and not-so-newbies

  1. #4661
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic_decepticon View Post
    If there is one person that could authoritatively conclude this issue one way or another, it is Bob, one of the key creative talents behind the original Transformer profiles and stories. This was the perfect opportunity to set the Cyclonus record straight but sadly no move was made to clarify Cyclonus’ reformatting. Don Figueroa drew the reformatting scene as an almost exact reproduction of TFTM (1986), that is with Bombshell and Skywarp being reformatted into 2 Cyclonus’.
    But again, the way it is drawn, Thundercracker is Scourge, Kickback is a Sweep, Bombshell is Cyclonus and Skywarp is his armada.*

    Yes HD you have good arguments as to why Skywarp could be Cyclonus, but anyone can do the same with Bombshell.

    Bombshell is Cyclonus because:


    - Function: A saboteur is someone who secretly subverts and obstructs, either physically or psychologically in order to cause some kind of damage or change. It requires intelligence and finesse. Thus - Bombshell. Also, Cyclonus is constantly gauging and adapting to Galvatron's psychological problems in the cartoon, to the point where he checks him in to see a psychiatrist. Cyclonus is far from just a warrior.

    - Weapons: Cyclonus has an incendiary bomb rack. Bombshell fired mortar bombs.

    - Balance:
    It is poetic if Galvatron's two offsiders each represent one of Megatron's teams from Season 1 - one from the Seekers and one from the Insecticons.

    - Colour and curves and pointy things on their heads: Bombshell and Cyclonus are both purple and curvy with pointy things on their heads.

    (And so on and so forth.)

    I'm sure nobody involved in the making of Transformers: The Movie cared at the time about why they made Bombshell into Cyclonus - there was no big plan, it was just something they did. They never thought anyone would care about what they did in a kids' cartoon - they had to replace the old toys with new ones.

    *

  2. #4662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonac View Post
    Doesn't 'retcon' mean 'retroactive canon'?
    One of my favourite jokes in Dan Slott's She-Hulk comics, was when she fought a villian who used a Retroactive Cannon: it didn't kill you, it erased you from having ever existed at all.

  3. #4663
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    I don't know that 'authorial intent' is gonna help much here either, hey. The script directions just list 'the remains of dead Decepticons' for old' Bunny-Ears and Batwings both IIRC.
    I'm half surprised they got Megatron into Galvatron without any major animation screwups TBH.
    Last edited by Ode to a Grasshopper; 16th March 2012 at 09:14 AM.

  4. #4664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post
    That is not right at all, Goktimus. Bombshell is reformatted into Cyclonus in the movie itself. That is how it was storyboarded* Are you honestly going to argue that because some recent pack-in comic suggests that Cyclonus was Skywarp it changes the film itself, contradicting common sense, author intent and the way it is visually narrated? That means the Dinobots must have always been a combining gestalt because a comic pack-in says so and it hasn't been retconned since. Or that Hot Rod was in his Classics form in Transformers: The Movie because that too was in a recent pack-in comic.
    Well... yes. AFAIK that is how retcon works. It doesn't mean it's any good... but it's how it works. I think this blog explains it well:
    "Retroactive Continuity is Bullspit" (parental advisory: this article uses another word for bullspit )

    "The unspoken law of retroactive continuity basically says that the most current truth is the only true truth, all other history is apocrypha. And while this makes perfect sense from a marketing perspective, especially when attempting to manage the tangled plot threads and multiple personalities of comic book timestreams, or in an effort to maintain the public's interest in an aging franchise such as the expanded universes of Star Wars or Star Trek; but at its core, it's essentially bullspit."

    Just because I acknowledge retcon doesn't mean I always like it or agree with it.

  5. #4665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
    I don't know that 'authorial intent' is gonna help much here either, hey. The script directions just list 'the remains of dead Decepticons' for old' Bunny-Ears and Batwings both IIRC.
    I'm half surprised they got Megatron into Galvatron without any major animation screwups TBH.
    The thing is, if one shows that scene to anybody on the planet who has no bias and ask them who became Cyclonus, they'll say it's the guy in front and his armada is the ships that follow him. The only people who will argue are people who personally want Skywarp to be Cyclonus. Which particularly makes no sense because those exact same people will eagerly accept that of the three guys who turned into Sweeps, the one in front (Thundercracker) is Scourge. The visual narrative makes it Bombshell; it's not something that should ever have been debated, but it goes on and on and on, like when people will swear blind that the blue cassette on a MOSC Frenzy and Laserbeak is called Rumble. <head explodes>

    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    That's not a retcon, that's a different continuity. I'm talking about stories that are intended to retroactively "correct" a specific continuity or continuity event(s) - in this case the G1 cartoon continuity.
    http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cyclonus_%28G...is_Cyclonus.3F
    But how is a Japanese pack-in story for United toy moulds the same continuity as the US G1 cartoon? It's not. Even in the unlikely event that it affects Japanese cartoon continuity, that is a continuity in which Rumble was red, Headmasters are completely different and Scramble City somehow happened. If that Japanese toy story comic thing retcons what happened in the US G1 cartoons, then by the exact same lack of logic, the IDW comic retcons it.

  6. #4666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post
    The thing is, if one shows that scene to anybody on the planet who has no bias and ask them who became Cyclonus, they'll say it's the guy in front and his armada is the ships that follow him. The only people who will argue are people who personally want Skywarp to be Cyclonus. Which particularly makes no sense because those exact same people will eagerly accept that the three guys who turned into Sweeps, the one in front (Thundercracker) is Scourge. The visual narrative makes it Bombshell; it's not something that should ever have been debated, but it goes on and on and on,
    Umm... yeah, that's pretty much what I said with the quote and link to the "retcon is bullspit" article. Again, just because I acknowledge retcon doesn't mean I like or agree with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post
    like when people will swear blind that the blue cassette on a MOSC Frenzy and Laserbeak is called Rumble. <head explodes>
    That's not a proper retcon, that's people mixing up different continuities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Shadow View Post
    But how is a Japanese pack-in story for United toy moulds the same continuity as the US G1 cartoon? It's not. Even in the unlikely event that it affects Japanese cartoon continuity, that is a continuity in which Rumble was red, Headmasters are completely different and Scramble City somehow happened.
    Yeah alright, I'll concede to that. The most recent Anglophone retcons would be in 2006 with:
    + Sony edition of the TFTM DVD featuring a lenticular cover showing Skywarp being replaced by Cyclonus
    + IDW comic adaptation of TFTM identifies Bombshell as Cyclonus (and Skywarp as "armada")
    I'm inclined to accept the IDW retcon of Bombshell over the DVD cover personally. Woo... confusing!

  7. #4667
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    Walked into this thread and it's like Groundhog Day Okay.... Rumble is red *runs away*
    New Acquisitions:
    TR Astrotrain, Skullsmasher, & Hardhead
    Scouting For:
    G1 Boxes & Cardbacks
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    [COLLECTION] [CREATIVE] [MK COLLECTION]



  8. #4668
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    Walked into this thread and it's like Groundhog Day Okay.... Rumble is red *runs away*
    LOL!

    For me, personally, it's sits better that Skywarp ended up as Cyclonus seeing as though Thundercracker is Scourge but yeah; each to their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon View Post
    LOL!

    For me, personally, it's sits better that Skywarp ended up as Cyclonus seeing as though Thundercracker is Scourge but yeah; each to their own.
    After watching the scene again. you could stretch it to say Unicron was talking about the cyclonus in the background and armada in the foreground? big stretch i know.

    Either way, i now have a proper reason to buy more Cyclonei..

  10. #4670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geigerrock-2 View Post
    Either way, i now have a proper reason to buy more Cyclonei..
    It's an awesome mold (Classicsverse) and I've been fairly tempted to pick up more versions myself on a number of occasions.

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