The Pros & Cons of Michael Bay - discussion topic

[Yongeltron]

...I would really hope they decide a reboot before starting the "expanded Universe" series of movies, as the first four don't give a solid foundation for future movies to build on. There are just way too many contradictions between them, and character flaws, for a Marvel-style universe to be created.

Given that consistency and coherence have been largely irrelevant to the franchise so far, it's hard to see why a reboot would be neccessary.

Just take whatever is working, make another movie and call it "TF5: Age of Galvatron". No need to throw the baby-bot out with the cyber-bathwater. There's good stuff here to build on. In fact, it would be nice to see them develop things rather than scrapping everything and starting over. How many characters and TF models have they gone to the effort of creating only to have them stand around in the background or do one scene before they're killed-off or never seen again? Jolt, Que, Mirage... Jazz? Even Ratchet didn't really get a decent spotlight until his demise in TF4. Megatron looked so cool in DoTM so it felt like he was under-utilized with almost all of his scenes just being him standing around being grumpy before getting his spine immediately ripped out as soon as he decides to get involved in the action. Shockwave? Now that was an anti-climax. We get a cool two-headed version of him in TF4 apparently only to further taunt us.

[griffin]

Given that consistency and coherence have been largely irrelevant to the franchise so far, it's hard to see why a reboot would be neccessary.

If Bay does is not a Director or Story Editor for the new Universe (to dictate the overall story arc), and the power goes back to Hasbro like it was for the 2007 movie (before they bribed Bay with overriding power to get him back for 2, 3 and 4), then I think a reboot would be very useful.
We could have Autobots and Optimus Prime being the Heroes that we can look up to and trust... something that Michael Bay sabotaged just to get a short good action shot or a Trailer scene, at the expense of the overall plot and consistent or believable characterisation.

I still enjoy watching the movies and often watch them when they are on TV, so I'm not one who finds things to complain about them or him, but I'd enjoy them a lot more if I could ignore the plot errors, embrace the characters and love to be inspired by the pure hero that "Optimus" has always been in the past. After all, if you can't trust your heroes, who is left to inspire you.

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree with Yongeltron. A reboot would be a cop out IMO. And as he said, it wouldn't really matter if a few things became inconsistent anyway.

[Yongeltron]

What I'd actually like to see is for it to be scaled-down a bit. Focus on the core premise from the first movie of these strange mechanical alien beings existing among us as everyday vehicles, hiding in plain sight, robots... in disguise...if you will. Focus on a small cast of autobots (three or four) that we can actually get to know and a couple of humans who we don't hate.

Decepticons are menacing hunters that are lurking nearby, killing with purpose and stealth. Rather than huge big pitched battles alongside the US military, have the bots face off in more personal battles. A decepticon attacks, so the guardians are scrambling to protect their fleshy friends. Show off their individual capabilities and personalities in desperate, scrappy personal fights with their malevolent counterparts. Let us get to know the villains a bit too, so there's actually some motivation to their conflict.

If we are focused on characters that we actually get to know, then we're more invested in their conflict, so the action is more engaging without having to resort to grand-scale battles. Make more of the fact that these are aliens with an existence quite unlike our own, yet still like us in important ways.

Give us characters we can connect with, transformations where we can understand what we're looking at and a story that actually says something. That's not too much to ask for, is it?

Also, no more swirly KSI parts-forming. That was ridiculous.

[Bladestorm]

I think one of the things that annoys me is that movie Optimus has lost his weakness... compassion and self sacrifice. In the first movie you love Optimus because he still has that... he's the reluctant hero who will do anything to bring peace to his people and Earth and it reverberates our childhood memories of the cartoon. As the movies go on he becomes colder, his personality is drained from him and he barely has any emotion. He becomes nothing but a war machine and we don't see the "humanity" of the being underneath that flashy red and blue flame job nor do we see the true leader he actually should be. They gave him some great moments in AoE but the story and execution meant you never got to connect with him and some of his reactions were downright odd for his personality/character... if they actually put as much thought into a character like him as they did that darn Romeo and Juliet clause I think the movies would have more substance.

Not only are Transformers robots in disguise (which I think has been lost to luxury car advertising) but they are individuals with very human traits and emotions that could pique a viewers engagement and endearment if it was actually explored a bit.

The movies brought a massive focus to Bumblebee and the no voice in the first movie was cute and yet again offered a tether for viewers to sympathise and explore with him. But he's had absolutely no growth or progress since that first movie. He's still a voiceless scout. He hasn't grown or evolved or even really interacted with the other bots to convey the friendships or relationships. He hasn't tried to get his voice back properly so that he can better himself. AoE could have explored his challenges and frustrations the ragtag group he was "leading" but there was NOTHING there to provide a connection with the audience.

I know there isn't time to develop all the characters fully on screen, but key characters should get more story over the ancillary humans. Personally I think the first set of Transformers movies should have been about the rise and eventual sacrifice of Optimus. Let him be the great leader and (as much as I adore him) eventually have him make the ultimate sacrifice to save the universe from something like Unicron and allow the next "leader" to emerge. Keep him in flashbacks or as the voice of the matrix, or even do a G1 and eventually bring him back because civilisation as we know it collapses in the meantime but give him and the other bots of significance a defined storyline arc that allows us a viewers to engage, to feel for our bots and leave us wanting to see more.

[UltraMarginal]

Just take whatever is working, make another movie and call it "TF5: Age of Galvatron".

I think it's time for a movie title with Rise in it, maybe Rise of Galvatron

Also, no more swirly KSI parts-forming. That was ridiculous.

Amen Brother!

I've enjoyed the movie we have got for what they are, sure there are issues with all of them but there are issues with every movie that's ever been released. I also don't see them as a part of G1 continuity or any other, they are their own haphazard continuity with their own albeit shallow characters.

I don't think the transformers universe is big enough for a MCU style tied together string of movies. we have 30 years of several different toy/show lines that revolve around pretty much the same topic with variations. the Marvel started in 1939 as Timely Publications with Marvel as it's modern self dating back as far as 1961, nearly 60 years of stories ranging between everything from a guy in a flying metal suit, a dude made from rock and a talking raccoon. They have the depth to produce 10 movies that are nothing like each other. Transformers is always going to have giant robots.

For the moment Transformers movies are enjoyable popcorn flicks and they will probably stay that way while they're making as much money as they have been. I would hate to see them start to take themselves too seriously and actually lose profit and stop being made as a result. as soon as the brand starts to look unprofitable, we'll start getting less of the good stuff that we do get.

Maybe in ten or fifteen years we'll see it rebooted in a manner similar to batman. With G1 story and designs that work on the big screen, deep characterisation and less fart jokes.

When I was younger, I always felt that Pixar could do a good job of a Transformers movie.

[UltraMarginal]

I pretty much agree with everything Sinnertwin wrote while I was writing my post.