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  #91  
Old 8th January 2018, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Heh, like Bumblebee's Ghost

Although I would take it on face value that it is actually Yoda's ghost. And being so powerful it really doesn't make sense. I mean, that super-ghost could single-handedly END the First Order and take out Kylo Ren. It makes Yoda kind of a <expletive> for not doing so.

The Force Ghosts made more sense in the Original Trilogy when they were just apparitions who only appeared to Luke and only he could see/hear them. And that's all they were... just voices and visions. They couldn't physically interact. From a story telling POV, it was so that these characters could continue to serve as the Hero's Mentor even from beyond the grave. And sure, Yoda does do this in The Last Jedi... but it could've also been done without the big extravagant destruction of the tree and books. It might've been better if Yoda had persuaded Luke to do it himself, thus allowing Luke to stop dwelling on the past and look towards the future. Not Yoda doing it for him.
Well prequel Yoda engaged in battle with Palapatine for about 15 minutes, then fell down and gave up and decided to hide on Dagobah for 20 odd years, he's already kinda an expletive.

I don't have an issue with the tree zapping, my idea of force ghost are more like projections of the viewers subconscious mixed with the Force, and the Force is itself a thing so whether Yoda summoned a bolt of lightning, it was Luke's subconscious, or the Force itself reacting to the interaction I think it makes as much sense as any Force Ghost concept.

I also do not think the Force and Force Ghost are separate entities, as when Yoda died in Jedi he said he would be one with the Force, so where does Ghost Yoda being and the Force end? That's why no matter how powerful a Force Ghost appears I don't think they can go round serving old allegiances, and besides their likely to only have such power where the Force is particularly strong.

I mean if you think Yoda could have Chuck Norrised the whole First Order, Obi-Wan could have at least done espionage work for the Rebellion, all those Bothans would not have had to die if a Force Ghost has memorised the Death Star plans.

PS: If Force Ghosts don't interact with their environment why does Obi-Wan sit down on the log in Jedi, do ghosts get tired?
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  #92  
Old 9th January 2018, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Zed View Post
Well prequel Yoda engaged in battle with Palapatine for about 15 minutes, then fell down and gave up and decided to hide on Dagobah for 20 odd years, he's already kinda an expletive.
I guess the writers didn't have much room to move with things like that, since Palpatine had to survive to the Original Series, but fans (and the movie studio) would have wanted to see a Yoda V Palpatine battle at some point during the prequel trilogy.
The prequels had to flesh out or explain things only briefly mentioned or implied during the original trilogy, while making sure they don't end up contradicting or preventing anything that already happened in Ep 4-6.
I think it might have made more sense to have Yoda go straight into hiding when Order 66 was initiated, sacrificing the action scene of his confrontation with Palpatine, whom Yoda should have easily defeated.
Obi Wan could have gone to the Jedi Temple on his own, to find out about Anakin before going after him on Mustafa. After Order 66 occurred, Yoda's inclusion on-screen was pretty much unnecessary from that point on.
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  #93  
Old 9th January 2018, 05:49 AM
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Yoda’s fight with Palestine was very ordinary. I vaguely recall reading that the destruction of the Jedi order only hours before ruined him mentally and emotionally and he could not wield his Sabre to i his full potential.

That and i think they wanted to show Palestine as being a supremely powerful force user as well as master manipulator...

Or we are all over thinking this and Lucas and the other Star Wars writers have been given too much credit post film release!
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  #94  
Old 9th January 2018, 05:04 PM
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Yoda’s fight with Palestine was very ordinary. I vaguely recall reading that the destruction of the Jedi order only hours before ruined him mentally and emotionally and he could not wield his Sabre to i his full potential.

That and i think they wanted to show Palestine as being a supremely powerful force user as well as master manipulator...

Or we are all over thinking this and Lucas and the other Star Wars writers have been given too much credit post film release!
I did do several laughs.

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Originally Posted by griffin View Post
I guess the writers didn't have much room to move with things like that, since Palpatine had to survive to the Original Series, but fans (and the movie studio) would have wanted to see a Yoda V Palpatine battle at some point during the prequel trilogy.
The prequels had to flesh out or explain things only briefly mentioned or implied during the original trilogy, while making sure they don't end up contradicting or preventing anything that already happened in Ep 4-6.
I think it might have made more sense to have Yoda go straight into hiding when Order 66 was initiated, sacrificing the action scene of his confrontation with Palpatine, whom Yoda should have easily defeated.
Obi Wan could have gone to the Jedi Temple on his own, to find out about Anakin before going after him on Mustafa. After Order 66 occurred, Yoda's inclusion on-screen was pretty much unnecessary from that point on.
The way Yoda was handled in episodes 2 and 3 suggests to me that George Lucas on a really basic level fundamentally misunderstands the roles and purposes of characters in his films.

The brilliance of Yoda, as we were introduced to him in ESB and later saw in ROTJ, was that the audience was shown and literally directly told that to be a great Jedi you didn't have to be a devil-may-care muscly swashbuckling physical warrior type.

The greatest use of the Force seen in the released films to that point, being the X-Wing lifted out of the swamp, was accomplished by a strange two foot tall frog goblin thing who didn't have a lightsaber, walked with a pronounced limp, and had no desire to actively join the righteous fight against the Empire despite his power.

Then you had the Emperor set up as a fantastic counterpoint to that. The most powerful evil in the galaxy was a frail old man with a walking stick and no light saber - the very antithesis to the physically imposing machine-like Darth Vader.

The way that these beacons of the light and dark were set up communicated some very important things about what it meant to be an extremely powerful Jedi or Sith. Physical strength, lightsaber training, and combat mastery were at the end of the day negligible. It ties in incredibly well with the end of ROTJ, where Luke helps bring about the end of the Sith by laying down his saber and refusing to give in to the urge to fight.

But, hang on a minute, suddenly its the early 2000s and Early 2000s Quality CGI That Will Age Terribly (patent pending) is a thing! Everyone gets a saber! Let's have everyone doing backflips!

Lucas literally said in one of the commentaries for ESB that if they'd had the technology in the 1980s to make it work that he'd have had Yoda running alongside Luke doing backflips and leaping over rocks, instead of riding in his backpack. George Lucas doesn't understand his own characters.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zed View Post
PS: If Force Ghosts don't interact with their environment why does Obi-Wan sit down on the log in Jedi, do ghosts get tired?
There's an interesting fan theory floating around that I heard posited by Sam Witwer (has done extensive Star Wars voice work) that as Luke becomes more attuned to the Light side in the OT that he's better able to view and interact with Obi Wan's ghost - in ANH it's just a voice, in ESB it's transparent, and in ROTJ it's almost solid with an aura, and can physically interact with things like the log.
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Last edited by SharkyMcShark; 9th January 2018 at 06:05 PM.
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  #95  
Old 9th January 2018, 05:08 PM
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Probably would’ve been more interesting.

Not even going to edit it and remove spell checker.
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  #96  
Old 9th January 2018, 11:58 PM
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^LOL
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Originally Posted by Lord_Zed View Post
PS: If Force Ghosts don't interact with their environment why does Obi-Wan sit down on the log in Jedi, do ghosts get tired?
ROFL!

Took my family to watch this movie today. Upon second viewing, that Canto Bite/Casino scene was even MORE useless than I remember it being!

I can honestly say that the entire sub-plot of Finn and Rose going to that Casino and looking for the Code Breaker yada yada yada could've been easily omitted from the story and nothing would change. The whole "6 hours of fuel" thing really doesn't make sense to me, nor does the excuse of the First Order always lagging behind the Resistance Fleet because the Resistance cruisers are "smaller and lighter." Lighter? In space?! And I still don't get why Holdo just allowed Poe to stage his coup. The moment it started was when Holdo should've said something to persuade Poe not to relinquish her of command. She could not have known that Leia would've recovered just in the nick of time to stop Poe. Why not just have words with Poe? Even something like, "We do have something better planned but I'm not at liberty to tell you what it is. Please trust me." Or, "May I have a quick private chat with you for a moment?" Poe mutinied because he was led to think that Holdo's plan was to simply continue outrunning the First Order in defenceless shuttles. He was justified in his fear based on what he knew, this was counter-productive to Holdo's objective! Yes, he's an impulsive and triggerhappy fly-boy, but you need him on side!

Otherwise I found the rest of the film to be quite fun and enjoyable.

P.S.: Noticed that Luke makes direct reference to events and people from the Prequel Trilogy. When The Force Awakens came out, I heard people theorise that the Sequels were going to ignore the Prequels and only continue from the Original Trilogy. But The Last Jedi, also referencing the Prequels, clearly shows that they aren't ignoring them. Which I think is good.
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  #97  
Old 11th January 2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Heh, like Bumblebee's Ghost
but it could've also been done without the big extravagant destruction of the tree and books.
Did you notice aboard the falcon when Finn opens one of the drawers, those ancient books are in there. Rey stole them!!
That’s also why yoda didn’t hesitate to burn the tree down.
“Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess.”

Because she already has the books.
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  #98  
Old 11th January 2018, 10:10 PM
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Someone mentioned to me how Luke should have gone out better. In the movie he seemed un-Luke (but was a kick ass hologram later in the film).

Instead of a hologram, how about he flew an x-wing and completely outclassed everyone (including Poe) bringing him back to what he was originally known for, his unrivalled kickass flying ability. THEN go all Obi wan no-clothes.

Yes, his hologram was very cool and must have been very powerful but throughout most of the movie and his actions he never really felt like 'Luke'.
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  #99  
Old 12th January 2018, 01:08 PM
drifand drifand is offline
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Originally Posted by Deonasis View Post
Someone mentioned to me how Luke should have gone out better. In the movie he seemed un-Luke (but was a kick ass hologram later in the film).

Instead of a hologram, how about he flew an x-wing and completely outclassed everyone (including Poe) bringing him back to what he was originally known for, his unrivalled kickass flying ability. THEN go all Obi wan no-clothes.

Yes, his hologram was very cool and must have been very powerful but throughout most of the movie and his actions he never really felt like 'Luke'.
Yup read this plot suggestion and I liked it.
I don't think the hologram was bad, I just felt what a waste.
An honourable fight would be excellent including loosing another hand whatsoever from either side. Hell if kylo looses his hand he will be so much angrier and serves a purpose of turning dark.

Oh well, I am just concern that Rian is still writing the script for next episode? This means jj is done for regardless.
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  #100  
Old 12th January 2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Deonasis View Post

Instead of a hologram, how about he flew an x-wing and completely outclassed everyone (including Poe) bringing him back to what he was originally known for, his unrivalled kickass flying ability. THEN go all Obi wan no-clothes.
That sounds like awful fanfiction.

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/stat...94363384807424

This series of Twitter messages is incredibly on point for Luke's role in TLJ.
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